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New Signings and Departures 2017 - 2018

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  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    That's reasonable, the local Young bucks would really want to be showing that sooner rather than later imo.

    It just seems ass backwards to me that you've to forego a really solid dependable player to see IF some youngfellas become solid dependable players.

    Right now if you lined up Caelan Dorris, Jack O'Sullivan, will Connors, Gavin coombes and Botha and was asked to pick three? I'm not sure I'd pick the young local lads tbh. Perhaps they'll become what Botha is now (or better)
    Gavin is 22, Jack is 21. I’m not sure when you think they should have been getting senior experience.

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  • Cowboy
    replied
    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    ... and in addition to Wallys post above, he’s blocking no one now- but would he next year, or the year after?
    That's reasonable, the local Young bucks would really want to be showing that sooner rather than later imo.

    It just seems ass backwards to me that you've to forego a really solid dependable player to see IF some youngfellas become solid dependable players.

    Right now if you lined up Caelan Dorris, Jack O'Sullivan, will Connors, Gavin coombes and Botha and was asked to pick three? I'm not sure I'd pick the young local lads tbh. Perhaps they'll become what Botha is now (or better)

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  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by B.A. View Post
    Lads the coaches see these players day in day out and believe it or not they kinda know what they're at and who's ready to step up etc. Nothing to do with Botha blocking them.
    ... and in addition to Wallys post above, he’s blocking no one now- but would he next year, or the year after?

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  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    And as usual, this is where I sit back and think 'well that's why we got Larkham Rowntree and VanGraan in place' and trust them to ensure the players are being developed

    I don't know better than them, I do think Botha is worth his place in a squad of 45 though


    Furthermore, if Coombes and JOS can't usurp players better than them then that's fine. I don't know what his preferred position is, but if Coombes can't displace Darren OShea then that says a hell of a lot
    Agree with you- the coaches are in a far better position to judge- but they also must have an eye on upcoming fixtures and ensuring the side that goes out is capable of winning. Consider, for example, the reaction here when we played a weakened side against Edinburgh at home and lost. We’ve reached the point in the year when it is possible to play less experienced players, and they too have another six months of development. Absolutely agree about Coombes and O Shea- but I think tonight we saw the beginning of that change.

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  • Wallyman
    replied
    Originally posted by B.A. View Post
    Lads the coaches see these players day in day out and believe it or not they kinda know what they're at and who's ready to step up etc. Nothing to do with Botha blocking them.
    The IRFU don't see it that way and they're the ones who count when it comes to contracts, not the coaches.

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  • B.A.
    replied
    Lads the coaches see these players day in day out and believe it or not they kinda know what they're at and who's ready to step up etc. Nothing to do with Botha blocking them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mumhain
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    And as usual, this is where I sit back and think 'well that's why we got Larkham Rowntree and VanGraan in place' and trust them to ensure the players are being developed

    I don't know better than them, I do think Botha is worth his place in a squad of 45 though


    Furthermore, if Coombes and JOS can't usurp players better than them then that's fine. I don't know what his preferred position is, but if Coombes can't displace Darren OShea then that says a hell of a lot
    I trust Larkham, Rowntree and Van Graan to be in charge of Munster for at least another 12 months. That doesn't mean I think every decision they make is right or that I have to agree that their approach of developing young players is the correct one.

    I think most people agree that Botha is currently a superior player than both Coombes and O'Sullivan, I don't think people are disputing that. The argument is :
    (A) When we have so many talented home-grown back-rowers, would it not make more sense to sign a NIQ player, in a position where we have less strength? ( e.g. we don't have anywhere near as many young tight-heads coming through)
    (B) How good could Coombes and JOS be in the future? Are we willing to risk them leaving Munster due to a lack of game time?

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  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    And as usual, this is where I sit back and think 'well that's why we got Larkham Rowntree and VanGraan in place' and trust them to ensure the players are being developed

    I don't know better than them, I do think Botha is worth his place in a squad of 45 though

    Furthermore, if Coombes and JOS can't usurp players better than them then that's fine. I don't know what his preferred position is, but if Coombes can't displace Darren OShea then that says a hell of a lot
    but how many times over the years have people said it about Munster and not playing younger players?
    if you go down the line that's why we have larkham etc then why bother have discussions here on a lot of things as sure what do we know.
    Is coombes a second row though? is he not much more of a backrow?

    Leave a comment:


  • Munsterboy
    replied
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    But, this situation is exactly is the same as now. Is Botha blocking anyone now?

    We don't have any more back rowers coming in (that we know) and Hodnett and Jacko are getting game like
    JOS is only getting his chance this season, but next season will be looking to kick on and start games Botha is currently getting, as will Hodnett and Coombes. JOD, TOD and Cloete need games too, and Beirne will be back.

    Botha is very good but he’s NIQ and we have a lot of other good lads to accommodate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cowboy
    replied
    Originally posted by Mumhain View Post

    Gavin Coombes and Jack O'Sullivan have both only started one game each this season. It's very hard to tell how good Coombes and O'Sullivan could be right now, if they been given Botha's game time.
    And as usual, this is where I sit back and think 'well that's why we got Larkham Rowntree and VanGraan in place' and trust them to ensure the players are being developed

    I don't know better than them, I do think Botha is worth his place in a squad of 45 though


    Furthermore, if Coombes and JOS can't usurp players better than them then that's fine. I don't know what his preferred position is, but if Coombes can't displace Darren OShea then that says a hell of a lot
    Last edited by Cowboy; 21st-February-2020, 18:14.

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