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    I find that a very compelling argument, Cowboy. OK, will let Arno stay then!!!

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      Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
      I find that a very compelling argument, Cowboy. OK, will let Arno stay then!!!
      Not trying to compel anything Jag me auld mucker. More suggesting people be reasonable when it comes to players, and coaches and let things pan out as they do.
      I am the million man.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post


        EDIT: I'll just take one area of the team: wingers

        Earlsy and Conway are from this remove, model professionals. Hugely talented, always fit, and match sharp week in week out. They set standards and you see Daly and Nash emulating the 2 big boys. We need that level of achievement and standards across every position, every set piece, every area before we can even expect some 20/21 year olds to slot in and become the finished articles.

        If you're not hitting the limits at the top end how are the kids supposed to learn whats expected? Why do Leinster kids look so polished when they break through? because they are following the framework from the seniormost players
        This is a very fair point, but do you not think that a young backrow of JOD, JOS, Hodnett cannot learn from POM. CJ, TOD - does Botha set some higher standard of work rate and professionalism than them. (Noting that in case of injury Coombes, Beirne, Wycherley, Holland, Cloete and probably Jack Daly are all knocking around also)

        I'm starting to think it was you who cut Botha's hair and you're keeping the lovely locks under your pillow.

        Most of what you have said on the last few pages is valid as a defense of signing experienced pros from outside the province, but very little of it supported resigning Botha. You say trust the coaches etc, but then don't apply that yourself. If the coaches thought he was as essential as you do then he'd be signed by now.

        Leinster players look polished also because of the coaching they are getting, especially the time that Lancaster puts in to the younger lads on the edge of the squad. Connors, Penney, Dorris and the O'Briens have benefited hugely from that. Lets see if Rowntree and Larkham have the same impact in Munster (signs are good so far in my opinion).

        Comment


          Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

          This is a very fair point, but do you not think that a young backrow of JOD, JOS, Hodnett cannot learn from POM. CJ, TOD - does Botha set some higher standard of work rate and professionalism than them. (Noting that in case of injury Coombes, Beirne, Wycherley, Holland, Cloete and probably Jack Daly are all knocking around also)

          I'm starting to think it was you who cut Botha's hair and you're keeping the lovely locks under your pillow.

          Most of what you have said on the last few pages is valid as a defense of signing experienced pros from outside the province, but very little of it supported resigning Botha. You say trust the coaches etc, but then don't apply that yourself. If the coaches thought he was as essential as you do then he'd be signed by now.

          Leinster players look polished also because of the coaching they are getting, especially the time that Lancaster puts in to the younger lads on the edge of the squad. Connors, Penney, Dorris and the O'Briens have benefited hugely from that. Lets see if Rowntree and Larkham have the same impact in Munster (signs are good so far in my opinion).
          I subscribe to the notion you can never have enough good players, which at the moment we do not. Holding onto Botha would mean you've options when inevitably the injuries to him or others occur. I won't be shedding tears if he leaves, I might give him back his hair, I'll see

          EDIT, and as others have said its not the coaches who decide whether he stays or goes, its the IRFU/Nucifora
          Last edited by Cowboy; 24th-February-2020, 10:04.
          I am the million man.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
            I subscribe to the notion you can never have enough good players, which at the moment we do not. Holding onto Botha would mean you've options when inevitably the injuries to him or others occur. I won't be shedding tears if he leaves, I might give him back his hair, I'll see

            EDIT, and as others have said its not the coaches who decide whether he stays or goes, its the IRFU/Nucifora
            While I’d be happy to see Botha go (because of the potential for blocking routes to meaningful game time), I think the issue of his influence on younger players development is worth taking seriously, international calls, and maybe even some time away from the game for those away in Japan etc last year, could well leave Botha the one of the senior pros fully engaged in training, preseason etc, a fair bit of the time- plus there’s the settling in of our new Boks. Whether his playing abilities and that role (is he someone young guys look up to? Does he have much to do with them?), is judged sufficient - and by whom- who knows. If that argument wasn’t strong enough to keep Alby, I doubt it will work for Arno.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
              I subscribe to the notion you can never have enough good players, which at the moment we do not. Holding onto Botha would mean you've options when inevitably the injuries to him or others occur. I won't be shedding tears if he leaves, I might give him back his hair, I'll see

              EDIT, and as others have said its not the coaches who decide whether he stays or goes, its the IRFU/Nucifora
              Do you also subscribe to motherhood and apple pie and when exactly did you stop beating your wife?

              Nobody is arguing that we shouldn't have good players. If JP was willing to bankroll Munster I'd love to see us having a mix of All Blacks and Springboks all with EU passports.

              However my starting point was a real word of constrained resources. Here are the facts. We have the following players under contract for next year who will compete for the 4, 6, 8, 19 and 20 jerseys.

              Beirne, Holland, Coombes, Wycherley, JOD, JOS, POM, CJ. Hodnett and TOD will be in the mix for the 20 jersey also and Aherne will be in the mix for the 5/19 jersey facing stiff competition from RG and Kleyn.

              That mix of players covers a range of playing style and gameplans and it covers young bucks (JOS, Hodnett, Aherne), experienced pros who have ht their ceiling (Holland, Kleyn, TOD), regular internationals (POM, CJ, RG) and guys who are reaching a crossroads in their careers (JOD, Coombes, Wycherley). With all of that already committed and with limited resources available Botha is a luxury and would be a poor use of our funds.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

                It can definitely work, and I'm optimistic! But you've to look objectively too. When any of the new backrowers are leveling up with Caelan Doris, or Will Connors then we are sucking diesel. Let that happen as it should, but I don't buy the notion it's a fait accompli
                It’s absolutely not a fait accompli, but you can’t bring players through without taking risks either.

                Doris, Connors and co. got their chances this season because of injuries to Conan, Leavy etc. Leinster didn’t have a Botha so they had to throw the young lads in.

                JOS won’t level up with those lads playing for the A team.

                Comment


                  Hopefully this is the resurgence of a new era for the province, and hopefully players can surpass whats gone on for the last 7 or 8 years really.

                  We've witnessed enough false dawns, its most likely why I am massively hesitant to decide John Hodnett is the next SOB for instance, or Coombes is our version of Will Connors.
                  I am the million man.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by B.A. View Post
                    Casey was playing with an injury for most of the match.
                    He had his hand in ice after being subbed off, and wasn't too happy. We were seated close by.

                    Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                    Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Miguel Sanchez View Post

                      He had his hand in ice after being subbed off, and wasn't too happy. We were seated close by.
                      Has had a scan and no fracture. He's back in training.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                        Has had a scan and no fracture. He's back in training.
                        Slapping hand back in action!


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                        I am the million man.

                        Comment


                          One for the sausages

                          Rugby Stats: Haley and Botha post impressive numbers for Munster

                          Kelleher brothers and Deegan leading the way for Leinster in the Pro14

                          Thu, Feb 27, 2020, 07:00

                          John O'Sullivan


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                          Mike Haley: The 25-year old leads the way in defenders beaten (23), metres gained (540) and also offloads (10). Photograph: Ryan Byrne/Inpho


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                          Munster face an important game in the context of the Guinness Pro14 race to the playoffs when they host the Scarlets at Thomond Park on Saturday.

                          The Irish province, in second place, hold a three-point lead over the Welsh visitors with both pursuing Conference B leaders Edinburgh.

                          The only team to have beaten Johann van Graan’s side in the league at Thomond Park over the last three seasons are Leinster. That’s an impressive record that Munster will be looking to keep intact.

                          Ireland head coach Andy Farrell has realised Jack O’Donoghue and Chris Farrell back to the province, a significant fillip ahead of an important game.

                          The 26-year-old O’Donoghue has been in consistently excellent form this season, playing right across the backrow and adapting superbly to whatever role has been demanded of him. His presence in the extended national squad is a reflection of those performances.

                          His work in defence, especially the lineout maul and the breakdown where he has managed to win more turnovers (seven) in league games than any other Munster player, supplements qualities like athleticism, handling and lines of running.

                          Two Munster players though have racked up standout statistics (Opta) in the Pro14, fullback Mike Haley and number eight Arno Botha. The 25-year old Haley, who made his Ireland debut in a World Cup warm-up match against Italy last August, leads the way in defenders beaten (23), metres gained (540) and also offloads (10).
                          His counterattacking inclination and ability to pick his way through the chasing line has been invaluable to his team. Haley has started 14 matches this season scoring two tries.

                          Former Springbok Botha is Munster’s leading try scorer with six, a figure that represents 15 per cent of the province’s overall tally of 39 in his 15 Pro14 matches. The in-form JJ Hanrahan has weighed in with a hefty 92 points (29 per cent) of the 323 his team has notched.

                          In terms of the team collective Munster have the best lineout in the league with a 91 per cent success rate. It’s fair to say that one player who will have dominated Munster’s analysis ahead of the game is Scarlets’ wing Steff Evans, who can play fullback, wing and centre.
                          I am the million man.

                          Comment


                            https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/03/...ct-extensions/
                            Great news

                            Comment


                              As far as I'm aware, players left whose contracts are up are Brian Scott, Parker, DOS, SOC, Botha, Oliver and Arnold.

                              Comment


                                Arnold and Oliver going to Connaught I hear

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