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New Signings and Departures 2017 - 2018

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    Welcome Jed

    Hope you enjoy your time amongst us, bring a coat, it's cold here usually (in Aussie terms)



    Lots of change in camp, lots of optimism and some great new coaches. I'm more optimistic about Munster than Ireland this year tbh

    Mumhan Abu
    I am the million man.

    Comment


      Originally posted by theghost View Post
      Not happy with this signing at all ,we have enough emerging talent in our academy and A squad to cover.
      references to leinsterfans reactions etc are of no interest to me, what concerns me is we are not giving opportunity to players in the absence of front lines during the world cup.
      short term signing with perhaps long term consequences, it causes discord in the camp.
      Players would have been busting a gut to make an impact ,seeing the world cup absence of front lines as an opportunity to show what they are capable of at pro 14 level.
      maybe I am over reacting and he will be the one covering from the bench while academy players get their chance, hope that is the case .


      Why not wait until a team is picked, and we know the extent of the players possible injury’s before giving out.

      What if one of those academy players gets injured, and we don’t have anyone in the squad up to speed?

      We have lost our starting two locks for the next 6 weeks, and then there will be playing time constraints on them.

      It would be ridiculous not to have some contingency in place. What if Beirne or Kleyn pick up an injury, or Ireland make it to the final. That’s and extra 4 weeks.

      Comment


        Welcome to the new (and not so new) players- you are joining a team that is very special to us.

        Like me most of the other posters, I am wondering how these signings will affect the development of our younger players. It may be that preseason, training, and a games is revealing we just don’t have the strength in depth we need to be able to get through the PRO14, and be ready for HCUP, given we have almost a full pack away with Ireland, and over half a back line. There’s no way most of these will be back ready to play for HCUP with playing time and potential injuries- so these recruitments may not be any more than a bit of careful housekeeping. There’s also the SA trip to figure into the schedule. Have confidence that the coaches realise the importance of developing our own talent- the first month of selections will be very interesting.

        Comment


          Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
          Welcome to the new (and not so new) players- you are joining a team that is very special to us.

          Like me most of the other posters, I am wondering how these signings will affect the development of our younger players. It may be that preseason, training, and a games is revealing we just don’t have the strength in depth we need to be able to get through the PRO14, and be ready for HCUP, given we have almost a full pack away with Ireland, and over half a back line. There’s no way most of these will be back ready to play for HCUP with playing time and potential injuries- so these recruitments may not be any more than a bit of careful housekeeping. There’s also the SA trip to figure into the schedule. Have confidence that the coaches realise the importance of developing our own talent- the first month of selections will be very interesting.
          I hope so. If we're looking at World Cup cycles, then this point in the domestic season is where the next one starts. The provinces have to embrace the opportunity to give real game time to emerging talent at this stage.

          There are players in that group who we'd hope to see pushing for the next World Cup, and that process starts here.
          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

          Comment


            With respect to the academy players getting game time. They'll be involved in the Celtic Cup until Oct 4th, which overlaps with the first two rounds of the Pro14, which really means the first three rounds for Munster as they'll be in SA.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Wallyman View Post
              With respect to the academy players getting game time. They'll be involved in the Celtic Cup until Oct 4th, which overlaps with the first two rounds of the Pro14, which really means the first three rounds for Munster as they'll be in SA.
              That's what I was thinking too, but the selections for the Celtic Cup so far are very largely guys who are very unlikely to be pushing for a senior squad place this year. Obviously this may change- as we come closer to the start of the senior season, maybe those on the edge of the senior sqaud will see Celtic Cup game time in teh next couple of weeks.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Wallyman View Post
                With respect to the academy players getting game time. They'll be involved in the Celtic Cup until Oct 4th, which overlaps with the first two rounds of the Pro14, which really means the first three rounds for Munster as they'll be in SA.
                JOS, Coombes, Aherne, SOC have not appeared in any one of the Celtic Cup game so far. They are currently behind Billy, Fineen, DOS, Botha and JOD for the 4,5,6 and 8 positions., with 4 more guys to come back from the RWC squad.

                If they were playing Celtic Cup I'd have less of a problem with the signing.

                Then there are 4 open sides (TOD, Cloete, Oliver and Daly) none of whom have appeared in the Celtic Cup squads.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

                  JOS, Coombes, Aherne, SOC have not appeared in any one of the Celtic Cup game so far. They are currently behind Billy, Fineen, DOS, Botha and JOD for the 4,5,6 and 8 positions., with 4 more guys to come back from the RWC squad.

                  If they were playing Celtic Cup I'd have less of a problem with the signing.

                  Then there are 4 open sides (TOD, Cloete, Oliver and Daly) none of whom have appeared in the Celtic Cup squads.
                  When those 4 return he'll be gone. He's signing for 2 months and is returning to the Brumbies. Also don't see the relevance of the 7s to the conversation.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

                    When those 4 return he'll be gone. He's signing for 2 months and is returning to the Brumbies. Also don't see the relevance of the 7s to the conversation.
                    I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone like Coombes or SOC. They have 3+ players ahead of them. Heading in the WC they would have had 2 players ahead of them a d feel they might get a chance at a run of games. Now that is less likely.

                    They are also not playing in the Celtic Cup. This is not a good investment in their development by the organization. If the coaches feel they aren't good enough then don't contact the. If they are good enough then don't sign short term cover. One of the decisions has to be wrong it's as simple as that.

                    some people might argue that they needed to be blooded slowly, and they might be right. There are 5 senior players for 4 positions. (6 if Butler is also contracted). That allows that 4 younger players to be eased in.

                    JOS and Caelin Doris were part of the same Irish U20 group and were neck and neck in their performances. Doris now has 16 of senior caps for Leinster and JOS hasn"t even been name checked by JvG. Coombes is a year older than both and has 9 cpas for Munster. Wycherley and SOC have less caps between them than Max Deegan.

                    The 7s are relevant because TOD will end up playing 6 also due to competion at 7, and none of this recognizes that Hodnett, Kelly and Eoin O'Connor all just joined the academy and also aren't getting much Celtic Cup gametime.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

                      I'm looking at it from the perspective of someone like Coombes or SOC. They have 3+ players ahead of them. Heading in the WC they would have had 2 players ahead of them a d feel they might get a chance at a run of games. Now that is less likely.

                      They are also not playing in the Celtic Cup. This is not a good investment in their development by the organization. If the coaches feel they aren't good enough then don't contact the. If they are good enough then don't sign short term cover. One of the decisions has to be wrong it's as simple as that.

                      some people might argue that they needed to be blooded slowly, and they might be right. There are 5 senior players for 4 positions. (6 if Butler is also contracted). That allows that 4 younger players to be eased in.

                      JOS and Caelin Doris were part of the same Irish U20 group and were neck and neck in their performances. Doris now has 16 of senior caps for Leinster and JOS hasn"t even been name checked by JvG. Coombes is a year older than both and has 9 cpas for Munster. Wycherley and SOC have less caps between them than Max Deegan.

                      The 7s are relevant because TOD will end up playing 6 also due to competion at 7, and none of this recognizes that Hodnett, Kelly and Eoin O'Connor all just joined the academy and also aren't getting much Celtic Cup gametime.
                      A very compelling argument, and it would be interesting to see how far the same sort of analysis would take us with other positions. It bears out my very unreliable gut feeling that we are not using the Celtic cup particularly well so far - in terms identifying the next in line for full squad places , it may be doing a great job at an academy level, we’ll have to wait on that one. last weekend a very young Celtic cup side were well beaten by Leinster, while the Leinster squad, shorn more internationals than us beat Canada. To me it’s not quite adding up.

                      Comment


                        As a point of comparison Leinster have 6 senior contracted players for 4,5,6 and 8 during the WC (Fardy, Toner, Maloney, Josh Murphy, Deegan and Doris). They have 3 in the WC squad (Ryan, Ruddock and Conan). They have lost Leavy to a season long injury and SOB decided late last year to opt for London Irish. They also cut Nagle and M Kearney at the end of last year all to make space for players coming through.

                        Munster have 7 senior contracted players for 4,5,6 and 8 (Billy, DOS, Wycherley, SOC, Botha, Coombes and JOD). We have 4 in the RWC squad (Kleyn, Beirne, Ständer, POM). We have no players out with a long term injury. We had no unexpected departures from the squad at the end of last year. We cut DOC2 last year to reduce squad size.

                        They have 4/5 solid academy players (Baird, Dunne, Dowling, C Ryan) for those spots. As do we (Aherne, Kelly, E O'Connor, JOS, Hodnett).

                        So why is it that we are signing short term cover and they are making do with giving game time to younger players?

                        Comment


                          I take it that the irfu have to sanction any short term cover ,that's what I dont get ,as away from home has pointed out above we have plenty options .
                          Still there's a light I hold before me
                          You're the measure of my dreams
                          The measure of my dreams.

                          Comment


                            I find it very hard to believe that any Munster fan would approve of this signing. I mean, it's seems pretty obvious to me anyway that (A) Munster have a substantial amount of cover for these positions(in accordance with the other Irish provinces, as highlighted by AwayFromHome), (B) This signing will stall the development of the younger players in the squad who are already not getting much game time and (C) Even if academy players(Ahern, O'Connor or Kelly) do get game time, it's not like they will be going up against Eben Etzebeth or Joe Tekori. They will more than likely be going up against fellow academy players like Ryan Baird or Max Williams. That's one of the beautiful things about the pro14, most teams (other than Munster) during the international windows, give young guys and guys on the fringes, a sustained period of game time to make their mark.

                            Comment


                              Jesus but i find the 'i know better' crew wearying

                              Would you tell a professional how to do some part of his job? Solicitor or Consultant Doctor say?

                              We've a tour to SA in the opening 3 games, we've two great coaches replacing FlaFel and a guy coming to help out before he starts his season in Australia. What's the noise on here? Oh but so and so's not going to get a run!

                              Any chance of the euromillions numbers or what's gonna happen with Brexit so I can lay a few bets about the future too please?

                              Either you trust the judgement of the people in charge or you don't, be they UL or Lansdowne Road based. For my money what Munster have done with eff all money compared to Sarries Racing or Toulon, and eff all player base compared to Leinster is remarkable. We are drawing good players and coaches all the time yet there is still nimbyism when the squad gets bolstered to perhaps ensure we get top of or conference by starting strongly in the league

                              It's for experts to determine whose needed to make Munster win titles, and those experts are paid to do so. I'm just a spoofer with an opinion, no greater or lesser than anyone on here. But in the context I trust the paid people to do what's right and what's needed for the side to keep getting better

                              If a lad is good enough he will keep someone else out of the side, don't matter where either is from for me.


                              End of rant. Hon you Munster bastards.
                              I am the million man.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                                Jesus but i find the 'i know better' crew wearying

                                Would you tell a professional how to do some part of his job? Solicitor or Consultant Doctor say?

                                We've a tour to SA in the opening 3 games, we've two great coaches replacing FlaFel and a guy coming to help out before he starts his season in Australia. What's the noise on here? Oh but so and so's not going to get a run!

                                Any chance of the euromillions numbers or what's gonna happen with Brexit so I can lay a few bets about the future too please?

                                Either you trust the judgement of the people in charge or you don't, be they UL or Lansdowne Road based. For my money what Munster have done with eff all money compared to Sarries Racing or Toulon, and eff all player base compared to Leinster is remarkable. We are drawing good players and coaches all the time yet there is still nimbyism when the squad gets bolstered to perhaps ensure we get top of or conference by starting strongly in the league

                                It's for experts to determine whose needed to make Munster win titles, and those experts are paid to do so. I'm just a spoofer with an opinion, no greater or lesser than anyone on here. But in the context I trust the paid people to do what's right and what's needed for the side to keep getting better

                                If a lad is good enough he will keep someone else out of the side, don't matter where either is from for me.


                                End of rant. Hon you Munster bastards.
                                I’m sure most of us trust the management, but the well informed pieces by Awayfromhome and others, are a reasoned questioning of how this recruitment will affect player development. For me it’s exactly why I like munsterfans, we are fiercely loyal but we are not just docile cheerleaders for a single view handed out from those at the centre of things.

                                Comment

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