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    Originally posted by Chrizzzie View Post
    I agree with Chips. Farrell shows how much difference a good center makes. If he stays fit he'll be in the RWC squad meaning we've to miss him half the season.

    Does Kleyn qualify for RWC? If so, than an extra lock might not be bad.
    I believe Kleyn qualifies in the Summer, in theory in time for RWC. Cover in centres and second row would be very welcome- perhaps especially a couple of one year deals- but with so many players tied up with RWC- and everyone else looking for cover too- there may not be much around. Presumably we’ll be playing against teams weakened at least as much as we are, so it could be great opportunities for goys already on our books.

    Comment


      Farrell will be in the World Cup squad if he's fit. It's down to Scannel, Arnold and Goggin to establish themselves into the 12 and 13 positions while he's gone.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post
        Farrell will be in the World Cup squad if he's fit. It's down to Scannel, Arnold and Goggin to establish themselves into the 12 and 13 positions while he's gone.
        I agree but do you want then to play all 15 games from Sep to Jan?

        Comment


          Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

          I believe Kleyn qualifies in the Summer, in theory in time for RWC. Cover in centres and second row would be very welcome- perhaps especially a couple of one year deals- but with so many players tied up with RWC- and everyone else looking for cover too- there may not be much around. Presumably we’ll be playing against teams weakened at least as much as we are, so it could be great opportunities for goys already on our books.
          An undercover Leinster fan!

          Comment


            I don't expect us to be signing anyone from outside the current squad for next year. I think the biggest issue to be resolved is how many of the players who are out of contract will be retained. We don't have any 100% essential players out of contract (like what happened when Donnacha made his decision late enough in the day) so I don't foresee that we will need to make knee-jerk signings.

            We may sign one centre on a short term deal if Tyler is released. That would be about it I think.

            I would also expect us to fill specific gaps in the squad that may arise from RWC injuries by short term signings like we have done in the past.

            We have 48 senior players at the moment and SOC, Coombes, Daly and McCarthy have all been confirmed to be on senior deals as of next year. There is only one guy in year 3 of the academy who has not been signed yet (Tynan). I guess he is 50/50 for a development deal (no inside knowledge just me guessing on the basis that they kept him on after last years cull and he has done OK for As and for YM). That makes a total of 52/53 players from the current system.

            My assumption is the Sherry, DOC2, Hart, Duncan, Keats, Taute, Stephen Fitz will all go. (It may be a straight call between Tynan and Fitz). That brings the senior squad down to 45/46 - still much higher than other provinces and we will have 4 or 5 year 2/3 academy players that will need to be tested in the Pro14 to see their worth (McHenry, L Coombes, JOS, Knox, More, French x 2). Losing both Alby and Tyler would bring that number down further but still way above Ulster for example and they don't have a stadium debt to repay.

            Of those c.50 players the vast majority are either proven HEC/international quality or will have been given contracts or contract extensions by JvG (or both). He simply won't be able to tell the bean counters that he is still in the process of forming his own squad. The bulk of that squad is fairly young and solid also so I wouldn't foresee major movement at the end of next year or the year after. Billy, DOS, Killer and Archer are those who would have question marks over them next year and presumably a few players who don't feel they may get more gametime elsewhere (Arnold, KOB, Loughman/Boomer, JJ, BJ). But even from those groups it would be reasonable to assume that 75%+ will be resigned.

            And sorry to keep beating the same drum (I honestly have nothing personally against the man) but this is why I don't see the logic of signing Botha - he severely restricts JvG's capacity to make a marquee signing in the next year or 2.

            Comment


              Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

              I believe Kleyn qualifies in the Summer, in theory in time for RWC. Cover in centres and second row would be very welcome- perhaps especially a couple of one year deals- but with so many players tied up with RWC- and everyone else looking for cover too- there may not be much around. Presumably we’ll be playing against teams weakened at least as much as we are, so it could be great opportunities for goys already on our books.
              Unless we (Ireland) suffer a lot of injuries, I don't see Kleyn going to Japan. He has not to my knowledge ever been to a camp Joe. Has he even had the phone call tips/improvement suggestions so many new players mention? (All that being said I am a keyboard warrior who is speculating and the answer could well be that he's on Joe's radar and got a list of things he needs to work on)

              Comment


                Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

                And sorry to keep beating the same drum (I honestly have nothing personally against the man) but this is why I don't see the logic of signing Botha - he severely restricts JvG's capacity to make a marquee signing in the next year or 2.
                I agree with a lot of your post and it makes perfect sense. Botha does seem a bit strange but I wonder was he signed given JOD and TOD's injury problems and without him Munster are light of No 8 options. I still think that regardless of injuries Munster still prefer to go abroad than trust academy talent. In terms of a marquee player are Munster being more pragmatic? The likes of Pocock and Reid will be available after the WC but there is little chance of Munster competing with the English and French in getting one to sign.

                He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                Comment


                  What do lads make of the 2 young South Africans in the academy. I know they've played A games but will we see them in Pri14 next year

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by redherring View Post

                    I agree with a lot of your post and it makes perfect sense. Botha does seem a bit strange but I wonder was he signed given JOD and TOD's injury problems and without him Munster are light of No 8 options. I still think that regardless of injuries Munster still prefer to go abroad than trust academy talent. In terms of a marquee player are Munster being more pragmatic? The likes of Pocock and Reid will be available after the WC but there is little chance of Munster competing with the English and French in getting one to sign.
                    I think in general we have done great business in what has been brought in from outside in that past few years (Marshall, Kleyn, Cloete, Alby + Carberry/Beirne/Farrell/Arnold/Loughman). Neither Taute nor Tyler could be classed as "bad" signings either no matter how unfortunate they have ended up with injuries. JVG is lucky to have inherited a better crop of academy/young players as a result of the investment Axel made in developing them and a solid crop of imports mainly signed by Rassie. His starting point is therefore much better than the three previous head coaches. All of that has put us back at the edge of the top table having fallen off it a bit.

                    I hope he focuses the next phase on developing the talent that is there in the system but adding one marque player might be necessary also to push us to the very top. Given the overall squad size and quality I think that one absolute top-quality player being signed at 7 or 12/15 in the next 2 years might be a better use of money than 2 or 3 solid players. I think we can compete with the English for top talent if we manage the overall squad size. If JVG cut Botha, Alby, Tyler and Taute we would have one NIQ player next year (Cloete) and their combined salaries (or even 3 of them) along with the likes of Sherry/DOC2 perhaps even DOS the year after next would more than cover the cost of promoting a few academy players and one marque signing.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Chrizzzie View Post

                      I agree but do you want then to play all 15 games from Sep to Jan?
                      Shane Daly has a golden opportunity!

                      Comment


                        Ian Keatley now ocnfirmed for Treviso next season - wish him well - will always remember his drop goal v Sale in last possession in HCup.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by MunsterBakery View Post
                          What do lads make of the 2 young South Africans in the academy. I know they've played A games but will we see them in Pri14 next year
                          They're superb, imo. Not sure if they will see much pro14 next year, I think it will come down to injuries etc but it's a possibility. More has only just turned 20 and Knox is just 19 so they probably don't want to rush them.
                          forti et fideli nihil difficile

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post
                            I don't expect us to be signing anyone from outside the current squad for next year. I think the biggest issue to be resolved is how many of the players who are out of contract will be retained. We don't have any 100% essential players out of contract (like what happened when Donnacha made his decision late enough in the day) so I don't foresee that we will need to make knee-jerk signings.

                            We may sign one centre on a short term deal if Tyler is released. That would be about it I think.

                            I would also expect us to fill specific gaps in the squad that may arise from RWC injuries by short term signings like we have done in the past.

                            We have 48 senior players at the moment and SOC, Coombes, Daly and McCarthy have all been confirmed to be on senior deals as of next year. There is only one guy in year 3 of the academy who has not been signed yet (Tynan). I guess he is 50/50 for a development deal (no inside knowledge just me guessing on the basis that they kept him on after last years cull and he has done OK for As and for YM). That makes a total of 52/53 players from the current system.

                            My assumption is the Sherry, DOC2, Hart, Duncan, Keats, Taute, Stephen Fitz will all go. (It may be a straight call between Tynan and Fitz). That brings the senior squad down to 45/46 - still much higher than other provinces and we will have 4 or 5 year 2/3 academy players that will need to be tested in the Pro14 to see their worth (McHenry, L Coombes, JOS, Knox, More, French x 2). Losing both Alby and Tyler would bring that number down further but still way above Ulster for example and they don't have a stadium debt to repay.

                            Of those c.50 players the vast majority are either proven HEC/international quality or will have been given contracts or contract extensions by JvG (or both). He simply won't be able to tell the bean counters that he is still in the process of forming his own squad. The bulk of that squad is fairly young and solid also so I wouldn't foresee major movement at the end of next year or the year after. Billy, DOS, Killer and Archer are those who would have question marks over them next year and presumably a few players who don't feel they may get more gametime elsewhere (Arnold, KOB, Loughman/Boomer, JJ, BJ). But even from those groups it would be reasonable to assume that 75%+ will be resigned.

                            And sorry to keep beating the same drum (I honestly have nothing personally against the man) but this is why I don't see the logic of signing Botha - he severely restricts JvG's capacity to make a marquee signing in the next year or 2.
                            AFH just a few corrections, Tynan is Year 2 of the academy and SO'C is yet to sign a senior deal (If he has, Munster are yet to confirm it).
                            forti et fideli nihil difficile

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Scrum Five View Post

                              They're superb, imo. Not sure if they will see much pro14 next year, I think it will come down to injuries etc but it's a possibility. More has only just turned 20 and Knox is just 19 so they probably don't want to rush them.
                              True but at 20 I'd like to think it'd be worth giving some exposure. At 13 he isn't very young. I agree on Knox as a prop but still it an interesting call

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by MunsterBakery View Post
                                True but at 20 I'd like to think it'd be worth giving some exposure. At 13 he isn't very young. I agree on Knox as a prop but still it an interesting call
                                Maybe so, neither look physically that far off and I'm sure they would be ready to step up if called upon but our senior squid looks fairly stacked in both positions at the moment.
                                forti et fideli nihil difficile

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