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    Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post

    Yep fair point, time will tell.

    Wasn't O'Gara already starting and playing Heineken cup for a few seasons before Staunton played for Munster though? Open to correction as I'm too young to remember but was Jeremy Staunton ever in a starting position ahead of Ronan O'Gara given he's three years younger? It doesn't seem to be comparable.
    Yeah, I remember it being a big debate in the last of the real heyday of the AIL in the late 90s. If my memory is right JS got picked ahead of Rog to cover out half on a tour to Aus in ‘98 or so.

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      Originally posted by buster View Post

      Yeah, I remember it being a big debate in the last of the real heyday of the AIL in the late 90s. If my memory is right JS got picked ahead of Rog to cover out half on a tour to Aus in ‘98 or so.
      Thanks Buster. It's funny how little there is on the internet about the early days of the professional game. That's why the couple of documentaries Munster have produced are so fascinating. Everything from the last ten years of so you can find with a bit of research.

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        Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post

        Thanks Buster. It's funny how little there is on the internet about the early days of the professional game. That's why the couple of documentaries Munster have produced are so fascinating. Everything from the last ten years of so you can find with a bit of research.
        I hear you. I just tried to check whether what I said was right or just senility - and I was veering towards senility for a few minutes until I found a Wiki for the tour itself. It was the Australia tour in 1999.

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          Originally posted by buster View Post

          Yeah, I remember it being a big debate in the last of the real heyday of the AIL in the late 90s. If my memory is right JS got picked ahead of Rog to cover out half on a tour to Aus in ‘98 or so.
          I think JS was the utility back on that tour as he covered 10, 12 and 15. Personally I thought 12 was his best position. Was Elwood on that tour? It was 2000 before ROG got his first cap in the 6 nations against Scotland after the nightmare in Twickenham.
          He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

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            Originally posted by redherring View Post

            I think JS was the utility back on that tour as he covered 10, 12 and 15. Personally I thought 12 was his best position. Was Elwood on that tour? It was 2000 before ROG got his first cap in the 6 nations against Scotland after the nightmare in Twickenham.
            Yes, it looks like Elwood was there on the bench as backup 10 but Humphreys played 80 mins in both tests. That would confirm your thinking that Staunton was there as utility back as both Staunton and Elwood were on the bench for the second test. Neither got on the pitch.

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              While, to my mind, suggests that Staunton was suffering from the Ian Madigan, JJ Hanrahan positional musical chairs problem already in the 90s.

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                Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                I agree I was responding to jagaway above "challenging Joey the year after".

                ...but it is early days.
                And what I was trying to do was to say what the (optimistic) path ahead and timescale is- he doesn’t need to be nailed on 22 at the end of this season- or the amount of game time convincingly demonstratingbhe is at that level he would need in the mean time. Depending on TB it may be he becomes TBs apprentice, in the next year plus, and then who knows.

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                  Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post
                  While, to my mind, suggests that Staunton was suffering from the Ian Madigan, JJ Hanrahan positional musical chairs problem already in the 90s.
                  I personally think JJ plays best at 12 too. My grandfather used to say out-havles are born and I may be inclined to agree. If it wasn't for Paddy Jackson getting injured he might never have played 10.
                  He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

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                    Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                    I agree I was responding to jagaway above "challenging Joey the year after".

                    ...but it is early days.
                    And what I was trying to do was to say what the (optimistic) path ahead and timescale is- he doesn’t need to be nailed on 22 at the end of this season- or the amount of game time convincingly demonstratingbhe is at that level he would need in the mean time. Depending on TB it may be he becomes TBs apprentice, in the next year plus, and then who knows.

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                      Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                      And what I was trying to do was to say what the (optimistic) path ahead and timescale is- he doesn’t need to be nailed on 22 at the end of this season- or the amount of game time convincingly demonstratingbhe is at that level he would need in the mean time. Depending on TB it may be he becomes TBs apprentice, in the next year plus, and then who knows.
                      Jagawayagain, do you see TB as munsters first choice 10 when fully fit? The way I see it, Carbery wouldn't have been allowed to move to Munster unless he's guaranteed a certain amount of time in the number 1 slot. I see TB very much as back up to Carbery as 10 and maybe a starting 12 even if fully fit.

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                        Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post

                        Jagawayagain, do you see TB as munsters first choice 10 when fully fit? The way I see it, Carbery wouldn't have been allowed to move to Munster unless he's guaranteed a certain amount of time in the number 1 slot. I see TB very much as back up to Carbery as 10 and maybe a starting 12 even if fully fit.
                        Frankly -no, for three reasons. 1. The guy has survived career ending injuries, it’s very hard to be sure he will ever be the player he looked like becoming. 2. Joey deserves every opportunity we can give him to become a great 10- he has the raw materials but needs a maturity that will only come with being the on field general over the next few years, 3. BillJ and Healy are coming over the horizon- that’s bound to limit TBs opportunities- because whatever the pecking order at we will need to establish whether they are worth larger/longer contracts. That’s a problem any number two always has.

                        A fully fit TB at 12 might be a fascinating way of enhancing our back play- but I don’t think we have ever seen that, and it’s very hard to be sure we will. It’s a shame he doesn’t have another year on his contract- but extending him beyond his current one is a very very big call.


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                          Have not often taken a punt on a player whom we have not seen a lot of on the field. Sometimes you get a feeling about a player, maybe illogical or optimistic BUT I believe that in a year or two Calvin Nash will be a star in Irish rugby if he can stay fit and gets game time.
                          On what I saw in a few games last year and in his U20 RWC, his potential is ahead or Wooton, and McCarthy, L Coombes, S Fitz, and others. I could be wrong but I believe it.
                          In forwards, from AIL viewing primarily, I have high hopes for Barron, Liam O'Connor (injured at a bad time), I Coombes and Sean O'Connor (a younger Billy Holland I'd say, small lock and big 6). But it's all guesswork.
                          A season or two ago, Dave Johnson and the Buckley back-row lad looked good and promising and both are gone.
                          Have we been too quick to pronounce younger lads as the real thing down here? The Ian Nagle saga springs to mind.

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                            Originally posted by Mr Snrub View Post

                            Jagawayagain, do you see TB as munsters first choice 10 when fully fit? The way I see it, Carbery wouldn't have been allowed to move to Munster unless he's guaranteed a certain amount of time in the number 1 slot. I see TB very much as back up to Carbery as 10 and maybe a starting 12 even if fully fit.
                            Sadly, injury seems to have sapped TB in the temperament area - his particularly aimless and poorly executed kick late on against Connacht, not to mention his badly telegraphed grubber attempt later were poorly judged, and gave them hope and ball late on. His miss of a straightforward penalty kick against Sarries in Aviva semi looks less a rarity now.
                            A fit JJ offers more (says the Kerryman) as a 10 or 12 (a NZ second five-eighths) IMO. Then there's BillJo.

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                              Tyler still a much better play maker for me, at either 10 or 12
                              "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                              Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                              Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

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                                Originally posted by isola ciarrai View Post

                                Sadly, injury seems to have sapped TB in the temperament area - his particularly aimless and poorly executed kick late on against Connacht, not to mention his badly telegraphed grubber attempt later were poorly judged, and gave them hope and ball late on. His miss of a straightforward penalty kick against Sarries in Aviva semi looks less a rarity now.
                                A fit JJ offers more (says the Kerryman) as a 10 or 12 (a NZ second five-eighths) IMO. Then there's BillJo.
                                Totally disagree.

                                We’ve seen how Tyler can play. He’s a match for almost any fly half.

                                He’s playing his way back in after a long period out and under competitive pressure. Trying to force things isn’t unusual in that position.

                                He’s massively skilled. I’m a big fan of Hanrahan, but I have never seen him produce the sort of fly half performance that Tyler is capable of.

                                Bleyendaal is in the Carbery/Sexton class of 10.
                                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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