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    Originally posted by joconnell View Post
    I'd say the my schmidt works is if there's an option in technique / gameplan it only becomes a viable option if every player is good at that technique. We've got lots of really talented players from every province but we've also got less skilled players. Again it's only my reading of it that the less skilled players drag down the possibilities for the better players. You see the welsh games and regardless who ends up getting the ball they can all draw and pass comfortably - adam jones could pop up in mid field, take a pass before trundling for a few metres and passing it off to a supporting player. I don't all of our players have the ability to do that as comfortably. Schmidt's game plan isn't based around "if you're keith earls or luke fitz you can use this option" since if either player is stuck in a ruck, that option is gone. It's more based around if you're the first player supporting a ball carrier who's tackled, you're clearing the ruck. If you're the next in you can either secure the ruck or pick up the ball if there's no op-position to stop that and so on. He wants to set roles for the players depending on how they're supporting the ball carrier and make them as simple as possible so everyone knows who's doing what. Until it's an option for anyone to pull off a certain skill then that option is off the table. This unfortunately stifles the better players in normal play unless there's a very high chance of them pulling something off successfully.
    And that is the problem. The teams end up playing to the lowest common denominator and trying not to lose rather than trying to win.

    Comment


      Originally posted by joconnell View Post
      Agree with part of that, our game is quite negative in terms of keeping possession being paramount. If you had players going off on a solo run doing what they saw in front of them however, if they don't have enough supporting players close by or on the same wavelength what'll possibly happen is they get isolated and turned over. Murray, zebo and earls definitely have the skills to pull a lot of things off, the issue is more that if they've a donkey running in support of them can they adjust enough to take a less than ideal pass and continue on? A player having amazing skills is great but they get dragged down if the 14 others around them aren't as good - otherwise sergio parrise would win the 6 nations every year.

      The simple game plan is trying to allow speed of thought, as whimper said above though it's showing that it's not all conquering.
      But there weren't three or four players of Murray, Earls and Zebo's ability, there were/ are six nations winners, HC winners etc who have shown time and again that they do have the skill to be trusted to play rugby rather than fecking kick chase/ contact finding.

      Comment


        Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
        But there weren't three or four players of Murray, Earls and Zebo's ability, there were/ are six nations winners, HC winners etc who have shown time and again that they do have the skill to be trusted to play rugby rather than fecking kick chase/ contact finding.
        Yep I hear ya, a lot of six nations and HEC's have been won playing turgid ****e too though. No misunderstanding though, I'm not defending the style of play, only how it might have come about. I'm all in favour of something more expansive and I think we'll need to it get around organised defences considering we don't have the same hole punching options of other nations to bludgeon out wins.
        The system is dead! Long live the process!

        Comment


          Originally posted by sewa View Post
          Look what Argentina managed with way less access to players and resources. Nothing but excuses from the Joe camp
          And four years Sewa, or selective Sewa perhaps
          Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

          Comment


            Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
            But there weren't three or four players of Murray, Earls and Zebo's ability, there were/ are six nations winners, HC winners etc who have shown time and again that they do have the skill to be trusted to play rugby rather than fecking kick chase/ contact finding.

            Im afraid you're overstating the skills of earls, Zebo and Murray there.

            earls and Zebo are good wingers, that's about it, Murray is a very good scrummy, but needs to take some responsibility on himself make his breaks and look at his options before he gets to the base of the ruck. Tempo is what it's all about
            Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

            Comment


              Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post
              Im afraid you're overstating the skills of earls, Zebo and Murray there.

              earls and Zebo are good wingers, that's about it, Murray is a very good scrummy, but needs to take some responsibility on himself make his breaks and look at his options before he gets to the base of the ruck. Tempo is what it's all about
              Joe wants flankers who can hit rucks, not wingers. All the good stuff is being coached out of those 3 players (though I think Murray maybe carrying an injury at the moment, so I wouldn't be too harsh on him).

              Comment


                Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post
                And four years Sewa, or selective Sewa perhaps
                Your list of excuses is wearing thin, thankfully so is Joe's
                My computer thinks I'm gay
                What's the difference anyway
                When all the people do all day
                Is stare into a phone

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Piquet View Post



                  Not much chance of a game in the Páirc anytime soon.

                  Its about all would fill it anyway

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by mac22 View Post
                    Its about all would fill it anyway
                    Old Dog put it way better in Post 12 above.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                      Isn't "basics very well. No magic. No intricate gameplans. Just the simple things done well" the definition of "a risk free, errorless gameplan"?
                      First post - long time read only. Watch the winger (I think) and then the 15, they do not look for contact but beat their man with some good footwork and then offload. Now this is in many ways incomparable with higher level rugby but I guess it reminds us how the game can be played and maybe - the experience of the rwc - should be played.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by thethirdpoliceman View Post
                        First post - long time read only. Watch the winger (I think) and then the 15, they do not look for contact but beat their man with some good footwork and then offload. Now this is in many ways incomparable with higher level rugby but I guess it reminds us how the game can be played and maybe - the experience of the rwc - should be played.
                        Welcome to the forum Thethirdpoliceman, an excellent first post!!!!

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by joconnell View Post
                          I definitely believe players regress, especially those who didn't have enough skill to start with, worked on it to bring it up to a good level and then stopped doing that work. Any mechanical skill has to be practised perfectly all the time to be permanent. If you practise it sloppily or inaccurately, then that becomes permanent instead.

                          Agree on ireland's style too - it's pragmatic and effective against most teams but it won't beat the top 3 teams and it's very unsatisfying to watch. It'll be interesting to see how schmidt adapts it for the coming games or whether the loss of four key players just stifled what was supposed to happen.
                          Masturbation, for example.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by BOK View Post
                            Rugby at its core is a very simple game. This passage of play is taken from a recent game between Bandon Grammer school and CBC. The attacking team is Bandon:




                            Hard straight running. Simple effective passing, and this from school boys.

                            Thats how we fix the problems in Irish rugby IMO. Practice on doing the basics to the highest level possible. Thats what the All Blacks do after all. The basics very well. No magic. No intricate gameplans. Just the simple things done well. I think our coaches have let the basic skill level of our players drop significantly in favour of trying to implement a risk free, errorless gameplan. It is this crippling fear of making a mistake has our players afraid to try anything remotely adventurous. If we can correct this mindset, then maybe, just maybe, we might have Munster play like schoolboys again.
                            Plus ca change. Yes- I was told the same thing 30+ years ago. Watch schoolboys rugby if you want to see rugby in its purest form. Of course, part of this is due to the lack of a sufficiently sophisticated defence but the basic skills are drilled, then drilled again.
                            Has Fineen put Johnny down yet?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by sewa View Post
                              Your list of excuses is wearing thin, thankfully so is Joe's
                              There is a world where you can happily equivocate eight weeks to four years, and then claim the opposition is making excuses. I actually believe you would serve very well under the Tory whip in the House of Commons.
                              Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                              Comment


                                To begin to get us out of this rut we need to find a hungry ambitious coach with new zealand naturally the hunting ground. There`s constant talk about gate revenues, how we buy poorly and munster is dropping as a "franchise" and it makes me sick. Sort out the rugby we play and the crowds and revenue will return. Connaught is the great example of this at the moment. We keep saying we need more money for big over sees signings every time the team plays poorly, but they`ve done so much with so little with one great coach. If a team is led down the right path, players step up and new talent is always developed and found.
                                "In a battle all you need to make you fight is a little hot blood and the knowledge that it`s more dangerous to lose than to win." George Bernard Shaw


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