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    So how can we fix it?

    We all know we're up **** creek without a paddle at the moment.
    The last few weeks have been pretty depressing as rugby goes. I think we're worse off than we were last season but we all know we've problem, so how do we go about getting back to being a force again. With the restriction of lack of money what can be done, what should be done to try and get Munster back.

    Try to leave out as much negatives as possible, we need ways forward, not backwards.

    1. Management: In my opinion Foley had no business getting the job, he was too inexperienced, and that was reflected even more by hiring his buddies. You get what it says on the tin really in this instance. So for me, we need to bring in a good experienced management team. It's backwards we're going and losing good players in the process.

    2. We need to buy smart, we don't have a lot of money when you compare it to France or some English clubs, and it's a hell of a lot harder to buy players when we're playing so poorly, but we need to buy smart when we buy. It's about quality not quantity. Invest smartly. Remember the days when we would worry about the select few that came here if they would buy in to the Munster way. That's now gotten a bit lost and we're shovelling in players from overseas who just aren't that good and to be honest, it doesn't seem like the decision was thought through very well with certain players.

    3. A) More matches in Cork. No I don't want the next point to get into an argument re Cork v Limerick, but we're struggling to sell out the ground, it would make more sense to play more matches in Cork, surely a full stadium in Cork would be better than half empty one in Limerick. Build up that bit of an atmosphere get a buzz going again, I really enjoyed the games last year in Cork and I think it's a good way to go. Really try and get fans back into wanting to go. I saw it suggested somewhere that they should run free busses from Cork to Limerick for the matches, I think that's great idea. But not just Cork, the rest of the Munster counties if the interest is there.

    B) Repair the relationship between the fans and the club. Look we all want it to be back to how it was.
    Reduce the cost of tickets, let kids in for free. Everything and anything that will get people back in those doors and try and restart that connection between the players and the teams. Get them back involved..Does anyone remember the Munster player race a few years ago, that was a great laugh, stuff like that that gets them back in to the province, give new heroes to the young lads.

    4. Player development..We need to bring through more young players. Who have we brought through since Murray, POM, Zebo. Why do we have so many Leinster players who didn't make it there.
    Wally suggested it recently that we need to use the clubs again. I agree with this completely. There must be good players we're missing that fall through the cracks at underage level, that miss out on the academy. Can you imagine the game time and the experience the young players would get just playing club rugby each week.

    5. Get players signed back on, I don't think anyone can imagine the damage that would be done to the club if Murray and Zebo go. Get them in.

    6. Acceptance of failure.. this for me is going to be a difficult one, as it will take time. We need to accept we're done for now, and start again.
    Get rid of players we know aren't good enough and go from there. It's not always about money it's about development. If you've a team with rock solid basics and a chip on their shoulder I think you'd could get them to go a long way.
    No papering over the cracks, no blaming the referee, no having a go at the fans or journalists for only looking at the negatives. Accept where we are now and deal with it.

    It's all about the coaching and that happens at underage level, that's why I think it's so important that we use the clubs to our advantage again. Look at Kilkenny (God help me) hurling. A success endless rotator belt of outstanding hurlers, player after player. There's no transition of young players going out and looking a bit lost, they play their first game in the Kilkenny jersey and they're 10 feet tall. Absolute relentless attitude towards the game, incredible training and incredible basics.

    (New Zealand are the same. Look at their success rate of producing top players, and they're population is as small as ours)

    No more of.. a 10 that can't kick properly, a hooker who can't throw the ball in well, a scrum half who passes poorly. etc. All players should be able to do the basics well, passing, tackling etc, and then that in turn will let them excel at their own position. Can you imagine if our forwards go pass as well as our backs? And this doesn't start at senior level, if this is only brought in and expected of the Munster team, it's already too late, this is what you teach to the kids.

    7. If all else fails hope that ROG will come back with a top class manager an experienced management team, kidnapping JJ on the way..drag Paulie along as well to give them a good shouting at.
    Last edited by Stringer9; 14th-December-2015, 01:23.
    The Maul is Back!! LONG LIVE THE MAUL!!

    Stringer is bigger even than his own immense shadow. Pound for pound, he is the best tackler in the world. If you put him into bag of cats he\'d come out without a scratch. He was hit very late for Murphy\'s try. And when he got up, as we knew he would, the crowd cried his name as if he had just fixed the economy.Billy Keane-After Munster\'s famous loss to the AB\'s.

    The Bull-Truly irreplaceable, a mountain of a man. 100 caps!!

    #2
    I think the first thing to recognise regarding' fixing "Munster is that there is no quick fix. So we're looking at fairly serious medium to long term solutions

    Firstly, Munster needs to invest more in its playing and coaching resources. The poor form being exhibited now is symptomatic of hiring cheaper, less able players to replace previously world class players like Wally, Howlett,Rog,Paulie, Fla, etc, etc

    Secondly, Munster needs top class coaches. Not inexperienced, yellow pack guys, but experienced, quality brains that some of the younger deputies could also learn from working with perhaps.

    As a temporary measure I think they should consider hiring Eos as a coaching /attack consultant to help Brian Walsh with the backs and Munster's attacking play in general. Why not?? It's not like Munster's play in these facets will improve without trying something different. From next season, if Axel is retained and that is a big if, I'd like to see a top class backs and skills coach join the coaching team.

    Also Munster should probably consider a director of rugby role above the coach to oversee structures, coaching teams, tactics, academies etc, etc

    There are rumours of fierce politics even within the Munster squad currently. That is simply not good enough, leadership must be brought to bear to unite the squad otherwise you'll never get them to play to their potential.

    Also Imho they should try to bring 1 or 2 big games to Cork (parc ui Cuimh, 50,000) each year.in much the same way leinster use the Avivas stadium in Dublin E.g. Say for the Munster V leinster fixture, &a European cup quarter &/or pro 12 semi say, each year. That should boost gate receipts&revenues a bit, and help revitalise support in Cork.

    I hope to goodness that the Munster branch do something significant soon, cos currently this franchise is going downhill right I in front of our eyes, and Munster Rugby is too good to suffer that fate imho.
    ____________________________________________
    Munster were great when they were Munster.

    alas they are just north munster now.......
    ____________________________________________

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Daithi View Post
      Also Imho they should try to bring 1 or 2 big games to Cork (parc ui Cuimh, 50,000) each year.in much the same way leinster use the Avivas stadium in Dublin E.g. Say for the Munster V leinster fixture, &a European cup quarter &/or pro 12 semi say, each year. That should boost gate receipts&revenues a bit, and help revitalise support in Cork.
      Problem with that is they're not really comparable. The Aviva is owned by the IRFU and it suits Leinster to play there rather than the rented RDS. It's the opposite in Munster - you'd be paying the GAA to rent a stadium rather than using the one you own, and the Grab All Association would charge the absolute max they could, even for a rundown hovel like PUC. The Aviva is a world class stadium - ticket sales are boosted just by people wanting a day out there. Nobody wants to go to Pairc Uí Chaoimh, not even GAA fans.

      Comment


        #4
        The first thing we need is to be realistic. There is a huge gulf between teams that can win the European Cup and those that are competing in it. We need to accept that we are going to have to rely on home developed players more and use our funds to augment that, not to fix it. Personally I would much rather see us spend our money on two to three top class imports and then bulk our squad up with academy players.

        We need to get back to the stage where we win our home European games. Then build from there.

        Comment


          #5
          PS. Madigan is not the answer

          Comment


            #6
            Is there anything to be said for another mass?
            My computer thinks I'm gay
            What's the difference anyway
            When all the people do all day
            Is stare into a phone

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Daithi View Post
              I think the first thing to recognise regarding' fixing "Munster is that there is no quick fix. So we're looking at fairly serious medium to long term solutions

              Firstly, Munster needs to invest more in its playing and coaching resources. The poor form being exhibited now is symptomatic of hiring cheaper, less able players to replace previously world class players like Wally, Howlett,Rog,Paulie, Fla, etc, etc

              Secondly, Munster needs top class coaches. Not inexperienced, yellow pack guys, but experienced, quality brains that some of the younger deputies could also learn from working with perhaps.

              As a temporary measure I think they should consider hiring Eos as a coaching /attack consultant to help Brian Walsh with the backs and Munster's attacking play in general. Why not?? It's not like Munster's play in these facets will improve without trying something different. From next season, if Axel is retained and that is a big if, I'd like to see a top class backs and skills coach join the coaching team.

              Also Munster should probably consider a director of rugby role above the coach to oversee structures, coaching teams, tactics, academies etc, etc

              There are rumours of fierce politics even within the Munster squad currently. That is simply not good enough, leadership must be brought to bear to unite the squad otherwise you'll never get them to play to their potential.

              Also Imho they should try to bring 1 or 2 big games to Cork (parc ui Cuimh, 50,000) each year.in much the same way leinster use the Avivas stadium in Dublin E.g. Say for the Munster V leinster fixture, &a European cup quarter &/or pro 12 semi say, each year. That should boost gate receipts&revenues a bit, and help revitalise support in Cork.

              I hope to goodness that the Munster branch do something significant soon, cos currently this franchise is going downhill right I in front of our eyes, and Munster Rugby is too good to suffer that fate imho.

              I'm assuming that the budget simply isn't available for higher quality signings, or we'd be making them surely? Unless the IRFU focus on IQ players is over riding all.

              We clearly need a backs/skills coach. I'd love to see Catt - his teams at LI, Bath and England all played very incisive stuff in the backs. I can see the argument for EOS, and what he could bring technically, but could you really install him under an under pressure coach and not expect all hell to break loose?

              O'Shea seems to be the name bandied about for DOR roles, but I'm not sure that the talent pool is that deep. I honestly can't think of one?

              Would Parc ui Cuimh boost revenue? I think they'd be better off trying to get sensible Saturday kick off times off the TV people.
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                #8
                Think of the amount of dead wood and below par players we have hanging around at the moment....for every 3/4 of them you would get 1 top class player for the same wage!

                Cut the hangers on and fellas that "might be good enough" and people would be surprised how much money we waste.

                I also agree with playing in a full smaller stadium rather than an empty large one (think of Edinburgh in Murrayfield). Move a few more games to Muzzer and build up the crowd and atmosphere, these fans will travel to Limerick more often once they get a taste for it.
                I also think playing even 1 game a year in somewhere like Tralee, Killarney, Waterford or Thurles should be looked into. Give more fans the chance to see the team the better.

                It's amazing to think that 8-10 years ago "Munster Rugby" was a global brand and probably one of the biggest and best sellers in the world (certainly at club level). Now we struggle to get 10k to turn up most weeks.
                We are a professional organisation being run by amateurs and the results are there to see...
                There are no stupid questions, just stupid people

                Comment


                  #9
                  It looks to be a deliberate policy of the IRFU to gut all the Provinces so that the Ireland team is regarded as No. 1. No decent coach will touch an Irish Province because there are too many limitations put on them by Nucifora & Schmidt. And Matt O'Connor knows what happens if you even look sideways at them. When you see guys like David Humphreys jumping ship, you know there is something wrong. Why would any coach want to come to any Province when their hands are tied whichever way they look.

                  When McGahan left, there were 12 applicants for the job (with Tana Umaga among them). When Penney left, there seems to have been 2 applicants for the job, O'Sullivan and Axel.

                  Similar with Leinster - no one wants to coach the teams now and its time people got off the local coaching staffs back because they are the ones who are risking everything. Much easier to do what ROG is doing over in France out of sight.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    1. Coaching ticket nowhere near good enough
                    I’ve been giving Foley the benefit of the doubt for 2 years now, time to call time. If he can’t even get a functioning lineout maul together at European level, time for him to go.
                    And don’t get me started on the decision to put our faith in Keatley over Hanrahan. The most charitable thing you could say about it is we chose a flake over a talented flake
                    The rest of the bargain bin ticket should be gone too
                    At this stage I’d say we’re better off concentrating on getting real quality in the coaching ticket rather than the pitch. This season is, I fear, a write off. We benefitted greatly during the RWC from the decimation of other squads
                    As for branch management, they’ve been making questionable decisions for years, but now the full rank amateurism is being exposed.
                    While I believe the Ireland set up is a massive reason we’re likely to lose players like Zebo and Murray and possible POM, we should looking closer to home as well

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                      Nobody wants to go to Pairc Uí Chaoimh, not even GAA fans.



                      Not much chance of a game in the Páirc anytime soon.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Piquet View Post



                        Not much chance of a game in the Páirc anytime soon.
                        Pitch looks fine and that stand could hold Munster's average Pro 12 attendance with plenty to spare.
                        New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
                          Pitch looks fine and that stand could hold Munster's average Pro 12 attendance with plenty to spare.
                          That "stand" as you call it is the Blackrock end Terrace.

                          Has the old eyesight deteriorated to that extent?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Piquet View Post
                            That "stand" as you call it is the Blackrock end Terrace.

                            Has the old eyesight deteriorated to that extent?

                            In Old Dog's lexicon, a "stand" is something upon which one stands. (The clue is in the noun)

                            A terrace, or, as we Southside Dubliners prefer to call it, une terrasse, is "a raised flat platform" - but the object in your photo is about as flat as a glass of the finest champagne.
                            Last edited by Old Dog; 14th-December-2015, 10:59.
                            New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              1/. Management - IRFU call the shots. Good or bad there's nothing we can do about it. I can't imagine any knee jerk reactions happening after last Saturday.

                              2/. Buying smart. Do we seriously believe every effort isn't and hasn't been made to do just that? Our budget limits our capabilties in this area, and Lucifora doesn't help either.

                              3/. Not this nonsense again. I.I.P. hasn't sold out in years. More games and/or more attractive fixtures there won't necessarily change that. I've never been to a game there with much atmosphere (in the last decade anyhow) and the notion of free buses and giveaway tickets to stimulate growth simply won't happen in times where cash is tight and budgets tighter. PUC as has been shown isn't an option currently, and probably never will be.

                              4/. Great idea but it's not a new idea as this is the aim of the existing regime. It's unfortunate but prospects will be missed from time to time.

                              5/. Contract negotiations are happening. Munster certainly won't be delaying anything. Again Mr. Lucifora has to rubber stamp absolutely everything.

                              6/. A sense of realism is there already. Munster Rugby aren't stupid and are well aware of their current position. It's not great.

                              7/. J.J. again. Quelle surprise! He decided against resigning with us despite being offered an attractive long term deal. With Keatley misfiring as he has been J.J. would have been in pole position to step up and make the 10 jersey his own. Hardly matters now as he's gone, and won't be back any time soon.
                              Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                              Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

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