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James Cronin moving to Tighthead

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    #16
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    Cronin starting at loosehead in the Emerging team to play Uruguay at 2 today in Tbilisi

    I wonder what state the Pitch is in after all that flooding.

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      #17
      Originally posted by cornerboy View Post
      Would this be driven by Munster or Ireland?
      Ireland have enough in ross and moore for the minute, munster on the other hand are relying on a waning botha and archer who's been slow to get up to the required level. John ryan's been really impressive since he came in, tbh I think him and cronin are better in the scrum than kilcoyne. Cronin's a cracking loosehead, he seems to either have better technique or more raw strength than kilcoyne to keep things stable and up, I'd be more than happy to see either himself or McGrath as backup ireland looseheads to healy. On the munster side I'd definitely like a front row of Ryan, Guinazu and Cronin to start against big packs with the more open running kilcoyne coming off the bench against tired forwards.

      Best of luck to him, hope he gets comfy around the time that botha's finishing up.
      The system is dead! Long live the process!

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
        I wonder what state the Pitch is in after all that flooding.
        An escaped tiger killed someone today.

        Honest to God.
        Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
          An escaped tiger killed someone today.

          Honest to God.

          I see that . . .it must be sureal over there at the moment with wild animals roaming a smashed and ruined city landscape.

          Comment


            #20
            There have been many tight head props who have successfully switched from tight head to loose head. Peter Clohessy comes to mind and this move very much extended his career significantly! I cannot think of any out and out success stories of loose heads switching to tight head however?! Jack McGrath had been switched to tighthead on the Argentina tour last Summer (as a substitute) but I can't say I saw him feature for Leinster or Ireland since at tight head?

            Tighthead is a far more technically challenging position where at loosehead there is of course technique involved but it is a position that favours those with natural power.

            The idea of having Killer and Cronin in the same front row is an intriguing idea adding 2 significant ball carrying options to our arsenal however I just do not see it working as first and foremost, they need to secure our first phase possession at scrum time. Leinster flirted with this idea by having Healy and McGrath in the same front row but as they have Marty Moore, Tadhg Furlong and a string of quality academy tight heads, this experiment was no longer pursued.

            Botha showed the difference in quality and class he is as a tight head when replacing Archer shortly after half time v Ulster in Ravenhill. Our scrum weakness instantly became a penalty earning weapon! The idea of releasing Botha at Christmas and relying on Archer, Cronin and Ryan (if needed) quite frankly scares the bejesus out of me when the finishing straight and business end of the season is in sight!!

            If the IRFU block Munsters avenues to replace Botha, they will be severely hindering Munsters progression in league or cup competitions. Any opposing teams will smell blood and go after us if they perceive this squad depth and experience as shallow and weak.

            As Killer is the naturally bigger prop (between himself and Cronin) I would have thought he would have been better suited to this experiment to become the corner stone of the scrum but given he is gunning for McGraths understudy position on the worldcup bench it was Cronin who drew the short straw it seems. It would make sense to give Cronin a phased in transition such as switch him over for the last 20 of a game or bring him in off the bench when in a comfortable lead but to categorically state that he is switching over having never been tested in a professional fixture is lunacy!

            I would sincerely love to be proven wrong on this and hope it's a roaring success for Cronin but for the immediate short term and Munsters competition interests, an extension of Bothas contract or a suitable replacement especially since we've already lost POC, is a must!
            "The only person that I have met, that I have ever been in awe of, is Eddie Vedder." -
            Pete Sampras

            Comment


              #21
              Coinin is the better scrumamger of himself and Kilcoyne.


              Size is not the issue it was when the Hit was there, and size does not automatically equate to strength in direct proportion.

              Comment


                #22
                It's a very good point and I agree with you that size is not the defining characteristic you need or automatically equate to strength.

                Having played tight head and loose head myself there was nothing worse as a tighthead then meeting a small loosehead who was able to get in and underneath you.

                As you said the removal of the hit on the engage has reduced the ability of the likes of Adam Jones, Andrew Sheridan and Soane Tonga'uiha. The new rules have suited the likes of Cian Healy who is naturally powerful and the perfect stature for the position.

                There are technically excellent props who are not massively large guys.

                Where a loosehead trys to get in and under neath a tighthead to raise him upwards (within legal limits of course), a tight head trys to lower and lock down his opposite number. At that level (european cup and GP12), to have some added mass aids in locking down a scrum certainly helps.

                Close to home look at Ross, Moore, Sampson Lee, nicholas Mas, Castrogiovanni are in or around the 5ft 10- 6ft 1 height but are significantly built (18-20 stone). Where the Bull and Mushy's height was a massive advantage at lineout time, it was only really Carl Hayman who was able to apply perfect technique to a 6ft4 inch frame to locking down at tight head.

                Archers lack of bulk has seen him struggle numerous times this season and last when contending with naturally powerful loose heads. I would just fear that Cronin would be isolated and exploited in the same way.

                Again I do hope I'm wrong as I'd love to see it succeed but a phased approach to the move might have given him a better chance to succeed.
                "The only person that I have met, that I have ever been in awe of, is Eddie Vedder." -
                Pete Sampras

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Corcíoch View Post
                  Coinin is the better scrumamger of himself and Kilcoyne.
                  And I actually think JR is the best scrummaging loosehead we have!

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Troymaclure View Post
                    It's a very good point and I agree with you that size is not the defining characteristic you need or automatically equate to strength.

                    Having played tight head and loose head myself there was nothing worse as a tighthead then meeting a small loosehead who was able to get in and underneath you.

                    As you said the removal of the hit on the engage has reduced the ability of the likes of Adam Jones, Andrew Sheridan and Soane Tonga'uiha. The new rules have suited the likes of Cian Healy who is naturally powerful and the perfect stature for the position.

                    There are technically excellent props who are not massively large guys.

                    Where a loosehead trys to get in and under neath a tighthead to raise him upwards (within legal limits of course), a tight head trys to lower and lock down his opposite number. At that level (european cup and GP12), to have some added mass aids in locking down a scrum certainly helps.

                    Close to home look at Ross, Moore, Sampson Lee, nicholas Mas, Castrogiovanni are in or around the 5ft 10- 6ft 1 height but are significantly built (18-20 stone). Where the Bull and Mushy's height was a massive advantage at lineout time, it was only really Carl Hayman who was able to apply perfect technique to a 6ft4 inch frame to locking down at tight head.

                    Archers lack of bulk has seen him struggle numerous times this season and last when contending with naturally powerful loose heads. I would just fear that Cronin would be isolated and exploited in the same way.

                    Again I do hope I'm wrong as I'd love to see it succeed but a phased approach to the move might have given him a better chance to succeed.
                    As it happens, I reckon Bull would have loved scrummaging at the moment. When you look back at the clips, he was a lot better than we remember, but his one vulnerability was big-hit charge-engage looseheads. In the current engage, that wouldn't have happened. And when the Bull crunched that shoulder down and in so that he was effectively touching his nose with his elbow, that was it for that scrum because you weren't going to shift that side with a JCB, and would happen all the time now.

                    Ah, the happy memories of that shoulder-roll.
                    Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Smacks of desperation to me. I'd be very surprised if Cronin becomes a European Cup level tighthead option anytime soon. It would take years for him to get to being a good enough scrummager. I suppose it could improve his loosehead scrummaging if he ever switched back though

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Thomond78 View Post
                        As it happens, I reckon Bull would have loved scrummaging at the moment. When you look back at the clips, he was a lot better than we remember, but his one vulnerability was big-hit charge-engage looseheads. In the current engage, that wouldn't have happened. And when the Bull crunched that shoulder down and in so that he was effectively touching his nose with his elbow, that was it for that scrum because you weren't going to shift that side with a JCB, and would happen all the time now.

                        Ah, the happy memories of that shoulder-roll.
                        Is it true T78 that you've your own scrummaging machine out the back at home?
                        Gwan Joe!!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          It's amazing the scrummaging knowledge that comes from playing backrow in 3rd's level rugby.
                          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Miguel Sanchez View Post
                            It's amazing the scrummaging knowledge that comes from playing backrow in 3rd's level rugby.
                            There's no way you played at that high a level !

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by ustix View Post
                              Is it true T78 that you've your own scrummaging machine out the back at home?
                              My copy of Topo Rodriguez' great work is worn to bits.

                              More to the point, when I did prop I was so light it was a question of learn technique or die.
                              Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                You are correct Point. He played Higher. Senior 1sts.

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