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    Kicking Coach needed ?

    Any chance that ROG can be signed ?
    There has been the odd match were things have gone right for the place kickers (and produced Losing Bonus Points) but, IMO the standard of kicking this season has left a lot to be desired.
    Not only has the place kicking been "hit & miss" but also the kicking out of hand has also been mediocre - going for distance & not finding touch or, worse still, kicking upfield and straight in to the arms of the opposition for us to lose possession & let them counter attack.
    BTW - what has happened to the Torpedo type kicking ? In my playing days, players were able to get more distance and the ball would bounce in to touch.
    Last edited by Dusty; 21st-December-2014, 00:02.

    #2
    The spiral/torpedo kick is now seen by most set ups as too high risk - too intricate and complex to be executed consistently under pressure.

    The on-end kick, which I always thought of as a rugby league thing, came in a few years ago and was seen as lower reward but lower risk, so actually providing better net outcomes over 80 mins.
    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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      #3
      Its context I think.

      ROG was the master at kicking to the corners, thereby putting pressure on the opposition throw in. Even if they won the ensuing line out, invariably they kicked from behind the goal line giving us a line out around the 22.

      The aimless kicking into opposition space is, I think, to allow our midfield break down opposition momentum.

      Didn't work out very well v CA at home.

      The box kicks are obviously to give us (or any other team) a relatively higher chance of getting the ball, or hoping the opposition knock on.

      I'm very much in favour of the latter, but for the former to work you need a) a monster midfield and b) a team who aren't great on the counter attack.

      Which is why it was nuts kicking to CA. They broke the gainline numerous times after we kicked to them. In some respects CA remind me of the French teams of old who are happy to run from anywhere (and who have the players to do so).
      Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

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        #4
        Cossie is our kicking coach and has been for the last few years.
        He combines it with skills :-).
        Axel has also upgraded him to our defence coach this year.

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          #5
          Originally posted by gerwebb View Post
          Cossie is our kicking coach and has been for the last few years.
          He combines it with skills :-).
          Axel has also upgraded him to our defence coach this year.
          And our back line is totally benefiting from him [emoji1]

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
            The spiral/torpedo kick is now seen by most set ups as too high risk - too intricate and complex to be executed consistently under pressure.

            The on-end kick, which I always thought of as a rugby league thing, came in a few years ago and was seen as lower reward but lower risk, so actually providing better net outcomes over 80 mins.
            Beyond your explanation, I can conclude that with professionalism, that means more training time, a comfortable salary, players are technically less able to kick correctly and use the torpedo. Isn't there here something wrong?
            This said, with torpedo, what a pleasure to watch the trajectories of the olive, and trying to imagine them is a real funny pleasure. But I forgot... Where is the place of pleasure and fun in the high level rugby today? They let place to tactic, huge sizes, and most of all to money.
            Ô tempora, ô mores!
            "To be energetic and self-sufficing is to be happy; but while one desire remains in the heart happiness may not come there. For to desire is to be incomplete: it is the badge of dependence, the signal of unhappiness, and to be freed from that is to be freed from every fetter that can possibly be forged." (James Stephens, Deirdre)

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              #7
              Originally posted by JN.Allezdax.com View Post
              Beyond your explanation, I can conclude that with professionalism, that means more training time, a comfortable salary, players are technically less able to kick correctly and use the torpedo. Isn't there here something wrong?
              This said, with torpedo, what a pleasure to watch the trajectories of the olive, and trying to imagine them is a real funny pleasure. But I forgot... Where is the place of pleasure and fun in the high level rugby today? They let place to tactic, huge sizes, and most of all to money.
              Ô tempora, ô mores!
              That extra time hasn't kept pace with the ability of defenders to be on a 10 in no time at all.

              Receiving a ball, shifting in the hands to precisely the required angle and launching it off the side of the boot is deemed a bit of a luxury.

              It's all probabilities now. If a spiral kick fails one time in 10 and the consequences of that failure negate the benefits of the first 9 times, then you don't spiral kick.

              Margins, margins, margins. It's what makes the current NH game so thrilling to watch
              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

              Comment


                #8
                No more a game, not a sport for poets and idealists anymore... C'est quand même un peu dommage.
                "To be energetic and self-sufficing is to be happy; but while one desire remains in the heart happiness may not come there. For to desire is to be incomplete: it is the badge of dependence, the signal of unhappiness, and to be freed from that is to be freed from every fetter that can possibly be forged." (James Stephens, Deirdre)

                Comment


                  #9
                  ROG had an article recently on the demise of the spiral kick, I'll have a root around for it later.
                  "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by JN.Allezdax.com View Post
                    No more a game, not a sport for poets and idealists anymore... C'est quand même un peu dommage.
                    Un peu?
                    Merde, c'est trop.
                    Gwan Joe!!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                      .

                      The box kicks are obviously to give us (or any other team) a relatively higher chance of getting the ball, or hoping the opposition knock on.

                      I'm very much in favour of the latter, but for the former to work you need a) a monster midfield and b) a team who aren't great on the counter attack.

                      Which is why it was nuts kicking to CA. They broke the gainline numerous times after we kicked to them. In some respects CA remind me of the French teams of old who are happy to run from anywhere (and who have the players to do so).
                      Teams do not drop box kicks anymore. They just don't. They get their support in place much quicker now that they anticipate the box coming. The higher the playing level, the less mistakes they make. How often do you seen the All Blacks box kicking? They tried it against us in 2012 and it nearly cost them two games. How often South Africa? It's a get out of jail card if you're under pressure at the ruck. if even that. This tactic has driven me mad for a few years now. We are not getting any joy at all out of it. Teams bottle up our midfield, push us to a static ruck by the tramlines,quite happy that we will kick them the ball with an open field to run into.

                      I would love to see the full potential of JJ or Keats at first centre. A kicking first centre who will kick to the corners, kick behind the wingers/fb or garryowen in midfield would be just lovely for Christmas please Santa?
                      Hibernicis natione, Mumhan per gratiam Dei

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by huron View Post
                        Teams do not drop box kicks anymore. They just don't. They get their support in place much quicker now that they anticipate the box coming. The higher the playing level, the less mistakes they make. How often do you seen the All Blacks box kicking? They tried it against us in 2012 and it nearly cost them two games. How often South Africa? It's a get out of jail card if you're under pressure at the ruck. if even that. This tactic has driven me mad for a few years now. We are not getting any joy at all out of it. Teams bottle up our midfield, push us to a static ruck by the tramlines,quite happy that we will kick them the ball with an open field to run into.

                        I would love to see the full potential of JJ or Keats at first centre. A kicking first centre who will kick to the corners, kick behind the wingers/fb or garryowen in midfield would be just lovely for Christmas please Santa?
                        It's not really about them dropping though. It's about our chasing players being able to come up to the back foot of the breakdown rather than chasing from behind the 10.

                        Still miserable to watch so much of it though.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                          It's not really about them dropping though. It's about our chasing players being able to come up to the back foot of the breakdown rather than chasing from behind the 10.

                          Still miserable to watch so much of it though.
                          That's the thing. You'd expect turnovers with gains of ground to be a positive outcome for this tactic. It doesn't happen. Or at least it doesn't happen against the "better" teams. It's muck and it needs to stop now. Just being inside your own 10m line shouldn't be a trigger to boot the ball away.
                          Hibernicis natione, Mumhan per gratiam Dei

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by huron View Post
                            That's the thing. You'd expect turnovers with gains of ground to be a positive outcome for this tactic. It doesn't happen. Or at least it doesn't happen against the "better" teams. It's muck and it needs to stop now. Just being inside your own 10m line shouldn't be a trigger to boot the ball away.
                            I think the intended outcome is to gain yards, even at the cost of possession. Can't work it out myself. Turnovers are hard enough to get that I don't really see the percentage calculations of always kicking it away. Unless you think your defence is a better offensive weapon than your attack.
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Grandpasimpson View Post
                              ROG had an article recently on the demise of the spiral kick, I'll have a root around for it later.
                              This is the article, very interesting
                              "Everything good about Ireland can be found in County Cork"....Lonely Planet Guide 2012

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