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A Post-Wasps feeling ?

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    A Post-Wasps feeling ?



    I've spoken to a fair few people over the last few days, and even from a lot of the posts on this site, there seems to be a disenchantment about the conditions in which we lost rather than the loss itself. The picking of players, the exclusion of others, preparation etc. It reminds me of the weeks after the Wasps HC SF loss. This culminated in the excellent interview Jim Williams did with the (IIRC) Sindo.


    At that time, the selection of unfit players was an issue, the main problem being alluded to was match preparation in terms of supplements/location etc. Now, it appears that the issue is competition for places, bringing players through and fairness in selection i.e. form over reputation.


    Will there be a similar Munster Rugby "clear the air" in this case ?

    #2


    Hard to know.....I think whats hurting most people at the moment,unlike the Wasps loss...is that our team never really showed up and gave it a go. We saw last week some of the future of Munster rugby putting in a storming comeback based on agression and high tempo, tackling for their lives,and then a week later the 'stars' return, without seemingly fire in the bellies...Winning the HC 1 year is great, but true legends can perform every year....


    How many Munsterplayers could look themselves in the mirror fri night saying they had given their all and left nothing behind on that pitch?
    Seas suas agus troid!

    Comment


      #3





      I don't know Point. I thought it was the end of the road after Wasps, but even more so after San Sebastian. But we came back from the loss in Donostia better than ever.


      Several players left last year, more will go now. Horgan has been out for a long while, as has Foley, as was Flannery,as was Kelly. It's bound to cause disruption.


      After watching the bounce back we made from our last QF loss, I'm less inclined to join the"sky is falling in" party. But several issues do need to be addressed.Full back, cover for Bull, the TOL/Manning/Hickey doubts, thesituation with Halstead,who's retiring, who's departing, who's arriving.


      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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        #4
        Originally posted by Balla Boy


        I don't know Point. I thought it was the end of the road after Wasps, but even more so after San Sebastian. But we came back from the loss in Donostia better than ever.


        Several players left last year, more will go now. Horgan has been out for a long while, as has Foley, as was Flannery,as was Kelly. It's bound to cause disruption.


        After watching the bounce back we made from our last QF loss, I'm less inclined to join the"sky is falling in" party. But several issues do need to be addressed.Full back, cover for Bull, the TOL/Manning/Hickey doubts, thesituation with Halstead,who's retiring, who's departing, who's arriving.


        I don't think the sky is falling in either, and indeed you've covered most of the points I was alluding to. In 2004, Munster simply weren't professional enough, and that was addressed in the aftermath of the Wasps loss. Now we have the further challenges you've just mentioned but Deccie has to face a few as well.


        It doesn't make him a bad manager, as long as he addresses the glaring issues revolving around the lack of competition for places, the continued selection of TOL at scrumhalf, the lack of matches during the International periods for the Non-Irish contracted players and the Non international squad Irish players (Munster had 3 matches from Jan 20 to 30 March), and his failure to make substitutions.

        Comment


          #5
          Perhaps this is the kick up the hole the squad needed after so many
          books, dvds, films, threatrical performances, floats, parades, national
          holidays and Feis Ceoils have been written, performed and acted out
          about them since last May.
          Frank the Tank is not coming back. OK? That part of me is over, water under the bridge.

          Comment


            #6


            from my point of view I think the dynasty will roll on .....


            after the wasps and san sebastian losses I thought it was over for us for a long time as we had a lot of dead wood and seemingly no young blood coming through.


            surely our front line players will never collectively play as bad again. We seem to have cover and promising talent coming through inmost positions except OH (not exclusively a Munster problem). Lets hope they get the chance to make a name for themselves in the next few months.


            Comment


              #7


              "How many Munsterplayers could look themselves in the mirror fri night saying they had given their all and left nothing behind on that pitch?"


              Alan Quinlan

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by joenah


                from my point of view I think the dynasty will roll on .....


                after the wasps and san sebastian losses I thought it was over for us for a long time as we had a lot of dead wood and seemingly no young blood coming through.


                surely our front line players will never collectively play as bad again. We seem to have cover and promising talent coming through inmost positions except OH (not exclusively a Munster problem). Lets hope they get the chance to make a name for themselves in the next few months.


                Therein lies the problem.

                Comment


                  #9


                  Manner of the defeat was a huge disappointment, Cullen, Mafi, Kelly taking a bit of stick but agree with LLCOOLJ that the team failed to perform across the board.


                  Find the talk if tiredness a bit of a concern when u look at the amount of games played by our frontline players in comparsion to those in England/France hard to justify that there shattered.


                  Congrats to the Scarlets every tackle was a funerial to them they put there bodies on the line and it counted. Feeling after the game was we were well beaten by a better team no complaints, Wasps was a brutal defeat due to the manner of it (lateness of winning score and questionable calls from the ref).


                  Season over, times like this we need to question why we have such a slack attitude in the Magners Lge.
                  \"There\'s only 1 Dougie Howlett, only 1 Dougie Howlett, drinking in bars, dancing on cars, walking in a Dougie wonderland!!!\"

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Tullig Red


                    Season over, times like this we need to question why we have such a slack attitude in the Magners Lge.


                    I think the fact we are in a RWC year hasn't helped, though EOS won't be losing much sleep about Leinster and Munster going out.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Agree about Eddie O' Sullivan reckon he was very happy chappy at 8pm Saturday evening.
                      \"There\'s only 1 Dougie Howlett, only 1 Dougie Howlett, drinking in bars, dancing on cars, walking in a Dougie wonderland!!!\"

                      Comment


                        #12


                        couple of points....


                        the season structure just doesnt suit us. We srtuggle at this time of year all the time.


                        this isn't the end of munster. Certainly some players will finish but there is enough talent there to keep us being a force.


                        We, fans, management and players have to put more into the Magners League. We should be near the top fighting for the title.

                        Comment


                          #13


                          I agree that we need to take the ML seriously. I was really annoyed coming out of the Blues game in Musgrave PK, when you pay for a season tkt you'd expect some kind of serious intent especially at home.


                          Winning is a habit and losing every other game in the ML sucks. No disgrace in losing at Stradey but the performance hurts and that saidvery few players (notable exceptions Donners, The Bull& Alan Quinlan) came out with a strong performance.


                          Con Artist

                          Comment


                            #14

                            Originally posted by Valencia
                            Winning is a habit and losing every other game in the ML sucks.
                            I totally agree with that. That was a disgrace at Musgrave Park, no point in saying otherwise - when we lost at Border Reivers (RIP) at the start of last season the players apologised (through Quinnie or Wally, can't remember now) for the shocking performance, there was no such apology from the team or management (where the buck should stop) after Musgrave. The loss in Thomond Park against Edinburgh last October in the ML - when we had the full HEC team on the pitch - was very reminiscent of what happened in Llanelli in Friday. Losing became acceptable, even with the full first XV at TP. No wonder Leicester could make the breakthrough, Munster had been mentally prepared for it. And the real horor of it is that Munster are way better.

                            What we wanted and what we want for the rest of the season and what the players must do is Stand Up and Fight. They didn't in these 3 games.

                            Why the hell not? I really don't understand it, and it seemed a collective malaise .

                            Against Wasps at LR there was a great fight by the lads, esp with ROG taken off after 20 minutes. They just ran out of steam in the end. No shame just heartbreak. But this is different.
                            Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Maybe the players didn't believe in the style of rugby they were asked to play ?

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