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    You don’t miss the water...

    You don’t miss the water til the well runs dry, similarly, few of us
    predicted that were about to see the end of this Munster campaign
    when we saw the Munster pack (for the most part) destroy the much
    vaunted English and Italian packs in the 6 nations. Munster rugby and
    Irish rugby has drawn heavily on the same group of players, and it
    would be faintly ridiculous to suggest that the same players who just
    secured the Triple Crown are now to be replaced at provincial level.

    What this loss does indicate however is that we need to find a way to
    bring more players through at both provincial level and national
    level, we are, in my opinion, placing too much pressure and too
    many games on the shoulders of too few players. We are asking too
    much. in the past few weeks this squad has gone from the depths of
    depression after the loss to Leicester and France, to the
    extraordinary wins over England and Italy, to being asked to again
    answer the provincial call in the quarter final. The last year has been
    spent in training camps and hotels and a punishingly hard retinue of
    games, yesterday it showed, when we went the well there was simply
    nothing left to give.

    If this was the sole failure of the current system, we could perhaps
    resign ourselves to the old call of the national interest must be
    paramount, especially in a world cup year, but that isn’t quite the
    case. There are well founded fears that we are about to repeat the
    past mistakes of the last World Cup year, at the very least on a
    provincial level. We have in Munster a cohort of incredibly talented
    and driven players, but not all of them are national players, and not
    all of them got a chance to out fighting last night. We have a group
    who have been on national teams that demolished South Africa,
    Australia, and England (twice) in the last year, and went within 10
    minutes of New Zealand in New Zealand, extraordinary that one
    team can produce the majority of the players from the front 10, in an
    era when forward battles are getting more attrional and the players
    and hits getting bigger almost from game to game. Is anyone
    surprised that those same players are exhausted and outran and
    outclassed by an excellent Llanelli side? These guys could become
    hotel reviewers for the AA guides, they’ve probably spent more time
    in hotels than the staff of hotels at this stage.

    If last night represented a shattering defeat for the old Munster
    order, then last Friday in Ravenhill may well be seen as the first real
    charge by the young pretenders to the crown, players like Ryan and
    O’Sullivan gave HEC level performances that will probably have
    caused certain established players genuine concerns about how close
    they will be to the first team next year. Even at halfback, in the last
    20 minutes, we saw an interesting tete a tete between Paddy Wallace
    the current Irish replacement outhalf, and Jeremy Manning, the 20
    year old charged with challenging Ronan O’Gara. Wallace was dismal
    at attempting to control a game that had radically turned against
    Ulster, Manning, despite some criticism, coolly slotted his points and
    sought to bring his team forward at any opportunity. He has a lot to
    learn, but he has the raw ability that should be showcased in the
    surrounds of occasional first team games behind our best pack. Was
    last Friday the first time he played behind a dominant Munster pack,
    and if so, why?

    Why? Why would a player with 3 seasons with Munster have played
    so little rugby behind our first choice pack? Why were our players
    tired last night? The same answer must be given, we have drawn too
    heavily on the
    It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

    Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

    #2


    Well said Joey. How can you be so clear-headed and literate after last night's disappointment?


    Maybe there should be a 12-hour curfew on posting after disappointing defeats. We might get better quality then!

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    "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
    Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by blackwarrior

      Maybe there should be a 12-hour curfew
      on posting after disappointing defeats.* We might get better quality
      then!
      I'll second that. Lot of emotion here last night. Plenty of red faces
      today and tomorrow I guess.

      Maybe there'll be no HEC next year because of the French boycott so
      we'll get a chance to experiment a bit.

      The end of a huge season, losing TP record, losing last night, and mid
      table mediocrity in the league but there's new players on the way, a
      bigger TP and a world cup to come. The scene is set for bold
      decisions. Is there anyone willing to take them?
      Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

      Comment


        #4
        Well written and thought-out JF !

        Pity some of the other posters cannot be so generous of thought in defeat.


        Some of the lazy journo's have just had their Sunday Input written for them.

        Bravo

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by rathbaner
          Originally posted by blackwarrior


          Maybe there should be a 12-hour curfew
          on posting after disappointing defeats. We might get better quality
          then!


          I'll second that. Lot of emotion here last night. Plenty of red faces
          today and tomorrow I guess.

          Maybe there'll be no HEC next year because of the French boycott so
          we'll get a chance to experiment a bit.

          The end of a huge season, losing TP record, losing last night, and mid
          table mediocrity in the league but there's new players on the way, a
          bigger TP and a world cup to come. The scene is set for bold
          decisions. Is there anyone willing to take them?
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          //->


          Why is, I think, what I was trying to say on another thread before I was divebombed and accused of hating DK, for whom I couldn't have higher regard. Ah well....




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          //->
          "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
          Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

          Comment


            #6


            One of the small positives from last night's defeat is the fact that, with no HEC campaign to concentrate on, there might be more integration of the 1st teamers with the 2nd string players for the remainder of the ML.


            This would allow the likes of manning, TOL,D.Ryan, Hurley etc. to flourish with a bit less pressure to perform.I think with a quality pack playing around them, these guys could show some serious improvement in the next 5 matches.


            Here's hoping DK's on the same wavelength as myself! [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]
            You have to dare to lose to win, you have to dare to lose to win, you have to dare to lose to win. A winner hates to lose, but the winner is not afraid of losing. That\'s the difference, that\'s the difference.

            - Prof. Willi Railo (sports psychologist)

            Comment


              #7
              2 issues brought up in that post that are vital &amp; need to be looked at by the powers to be before things can improve.



              - I'm banging my head of the wall here but EOS is overplaying the same
              XV/18 players &amp; is not rotating the squad enough. This is hurting
              Ireland (which alone is a good enough reason to change) but also the
              provinces as the players are coming back shot from playing 5 high
              intensity tests in 7 weeks. It's great hearing the plaudits about IRL
              but as B. moore, Ackford and others are warning, we are only 1 injury
              away from a crisis, we saw this against France where without BOD we
              were clueless &amp; without O'Connell we lacked power in the pack. So
              far Bull Hayes &amp; ROG have stayed fit (but for how long?) EOS is
              mismanaging our ressources.



              - When the IRL intls are available : DK must avoid where possible
              resting them all at once or playing them all at once. The right balance
              needs to be found - when the likes of JOS &amp; DR play well they
              should remain on the team, Leamy, DOC, MOD, Horan etc can all start a
              HEC game on the bench from time to time &amp; be brought on if things
              are going badly. Why not, it's called using your ressources wisely .
              This split between the 1st choice &amp; 2nd choice pack is unhealthy
              &amp; the 2nds are bound to be pissed off.


              Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again (like picking Gordon D'Arcy) and expecting different results.
              Albert Einstein

              Comment


                #8
                Thoughtful and clear-minded reflections on our predicament. Threads
                like this are helpful a time when most posters are becomming far too
                emotional.
                The in-fighting and dishing of dirt that's happening on other threads is
                shameful.
                If your religion is worth killing for, please start with yourself.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by rathbaner
                  Originally posted by blackwarrior


                  Maybe there should be a 12-hour curfew
                  on posting after disappointing defeats. We might get better quality
                  then!


                  I'll second that. Lot of emotion here last night. Plenty of red faces
                  today and tomorrow I guess.

                  Maybe there'll be no HEC next year because of the French boycott so
                  we'll get a chance to experiment a bit.

                  The end of a huge season, losing TP record, losing last night, and mid
                  table mediocrity in the league but there's new players on the way, a
                  bigger TP and a world cup to come. The scene is set for bold
                  decisions. Is there anyone willing to take them
                  ?




                  This was done in 2000 and worked brilliantly bringing through a crop of players like o Gara Stringer BOD etc but I fear that Munster Rugby isn't at a low enough ebb yet for someone to stick their neck on the line

                  Comment


                    #10


                    Originally posted by HandsomeMacCool


                    I fear that Munster Rugby isn't at a low enough ebb yet for someone to stick their neck on the line
                    God I really hope you're wrong there.

                    We lost a lot of quality players at the end of last season and brought hardly any in just a few with potential. On top of that we had about half a dozen players out with injuries at any one time. The quality to replace them wasn't already there and in the groove of the team.

                    Having said that, the Scarlets game reminded me of the ML game in Thomond against Edinburgh. We had the full team out and we lost, handy, to Edinburgh, in Thomond. I couldn't believe it.

                    ROG got injured and went off early in the game and we had a HEC game the following week so we were tripping over the excuses we had so many of em. But we lost easy. I suppose the signs were there, standards allowed to slip here and there. Maybe that last gasp penalty at Welford Rd covered up too many cracks.

                    I feel sorry for the players that they've let all their hard work over months just slip through their fingers and into the sand like this.

                    I know Deccie won't panic. And maybe that's a shame too.


                    Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Munster I think need a '99 World Cup of their own to put the fear back into the players

                      Comment


                        #12
                        destroy the much
                        vaunted English and Italian packs in the 6 nations
                        I'm sorry but we didn't even come close to destroying the Italian pack in the 6N. They had us in the front 5 easily.

                        Comment

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