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Munster’s Props, Ireland’s prop short

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    Munster’s Props, Ireland’s prop short



    I know this will be dismissed as typical Munster arrogance by some of the other provinces but why did Ulster sign Tom Court and Leinster sign half the South Sea Island props when Munster have Hurley, Buckley, McGovern and Ryan in reserve, as well as Le Puc and of course the 2 starting props, Hayes and Horan? It isn't going to do any good for the long term health of the national team if we can't the the above 4 horsemen enough games. How good could Buckely be now, if he's stayed at Connacht and played ML every other week for the last 2 years, for example? Neither Hayes or Horan look to be coming to the end of the Munster career, both are in top form and obviously unlikely to edged out by the raw pretenders. The challengers need to get proper gametime, and can all 4 actually get that in Munster?
    It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

    Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

    #2


    Hi,


    First post here, so be gentle....


    I think the big mistake of these last few months is letting Ray Hogan head across the Irish Sea and Peter Bracks stay over there. I know it's been discussed but a bit of long term planning from IRFU and the provincial branches wouldn't go astray.


    Both of those guys would have done a great job (and played with a decent team, rather than going to the likes of Bristol) up with the ladies.
    You have to dare to lose to win, you have to dare to lose to win, you have to dare to lose to win. A winner hates to lose, but the winner is not afraid of losing. That\'s the difference, that\'s the difference.

    - Prof. Willi Railo (sports psychologist)

    Comment


      #3


      Originally posted by JoeyFantastic
      I know this will be dismissed as typical Munster arrogance by some of the other provinces but why did Ulster sign Tom Court and Leinster sign half the South Sea Island props when Munster have Hurley, Buckley, McGovern and Ryan in reserve, as well as Le Puc and of course the 2 starting props, Hayes and Horan? It isn't going to do any good for the long term health of the national team if we can't the the above 4 horsemen enough games. How good could Buckely be now, if he's stayed at Connacht and played ML every other week for the last 2 years, for example? Neither Hayes or Horan look to be coming to the end of the Munster career, both are in top form and obviously unlikely to edged out by the raw pretenders. The challengers need to get proper gametime, and can all 4 actually get that in Munster?

      I agree with most of that, but I think Hurley should/will replace Horan next season.


      New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

      Comment


        #4

        Originally posted by An Fear Bolg

        Hi,


        First post here, so be gentle....


        I think the big mistake of these last few months is letting Ray Hogan head across the Irish Sea and Peter Bracks stay over there. I know it's been discussed but a bit of long term planning from IRFU and the provincial branches wouldn't go astray.


        Both of those guys would have done a great job (and played with a decent team, rather than going to the likes of Bristol) up with the ladies.
        Welcome to the site.

        The word is that Leinster tried to sign both and both refused, think Cheika mentioned it a few weeks back? Both would have been great signings for Leinster, but now there's a chance of an all-Irish front row at Bristol. The move worked well for Mike Ross so hopefully they'll both be better players for it.
        It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

        Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

        Comment


          #5
          If hurley replaces Horan then maybe we should look to move Horan somewhere else - I think he'd do a fine job at IC! [img]smileys/smile.gif[/img]
          Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
          Munster: Early Season
          Munster: Escape from Pool of Death
          Munster: HEC Champions 2007/2008
          Munster: Full Season Highlights.

          Comment


            #6


            Originally posted by Cathal
            If hurley replaces Horan then maybe we should look to move Horan somewhere else - I think he'd do a fine job at IC! [img]smileys/smile.gif[/img]

            Wing threequarter - he's faster than Dowling (and his bum is bigger!).
            New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

            Comment


              #7
              Yeah seem to remember that Cheika expressed suprise that they had signed. Wonder why they turned down the option to go to Leinster. Was the money / terms conditions? DC you ever hear anything about the reasons?
              Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by JoeyFantastic

                I know this will be dismissed as typical Munster arrogance by some
                of the other provinces but why did Ulster sign Tom Court and Leinster
                sign half the South Sea Island props when Munster have Hurley,
                Buckley, McGovern and Ryan in reserve, as well as Le Puc and of
                course the 2 starting props, Hayes and Horan? It isn't going to do any
                good for the long term health of the national team if we can't the the
                above 4 horsemen enough games. How good could Buckely be now,
                if he's stayed at Connacht and played ML every other week for the
                last 2 years, for example? Neither Hayes or Horan look to be coming
                to the end of the Munster career, both are in top form and obviously
                unlikely to edged out by the raw pretenders. The challengers need to
                get proper gametime, and can all 4 actually get that in Munster?
                I don't disagree, though I don't think Ulster had a whole lot of choice
                in the McCourt thing. The problem is that leinster have attempted to
                sign local props, but the attempts have been unsuccessful for
                whatever reason, leaving us with no real choice than to go overseas.

                I don't regard Bracken all that highly as it happens
                Karma

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Old Dog

                  Originally posted by Cathal
                  If hurley replaces Horan then maybe we should look to move Horan somewhere else - I think he'd do a fine job at IC! [img]smileys/smile.gif[/img]

                  Wing threequarter - he's faster than Dowling (and his bum is bigger!).
                  Well Horan to wing and Dowling to IC then, Jebus we'll have depth in the backs before you know it!

                  Look out Leinster backs! [img]smileys/cool.gif[/img]
                  Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
                  Munster: Early Season
                  Munster: Escape from Pool of Death
                  Munster: HEC Champions 2007/2008
                  Munster: Full Season Highlights.

                  Comment


                    #10

                    Originally posted by Old Dog





                    I agree with most of that, but I think Hurley should/will replace Horan next season.

                    Depends on how the ML is structured around the RWC, chances are the irish front row will be Horan, Flannery and Hayes, very hard not just to sub the entire unit back in and then we're straight into HEC rugby I think so Hurley will only get limited first team time post RWC
                    It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

                    Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by McCloud
                      Yeah seem to remember that Cheika expressed
                      suprise that they had signed. Wonder why they turned down the option
                      to go to Leinster. Was the money / terms conditions? DC you ever hear
                      anything about the reasons?
                      Nope, not a clue. I'd assume the T&Cs over there were better, and
                      Bracken would be well settled in the UK at this stage. Its a big decision
                      to make considering the Irish team managements attitude to players
                      based abroad
                      Karma

                      Comment


                        #12


                        Originally posted by Dave Cahill



                        I don't regard Bracken all that highly as it happens


                        Neither do I - and I'm sure that Roly would have been asked to have a look at him.


                        New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by McCloud
                          Yeah seem to remember that Cheika expressed
                          suprise that they had signed. Wonder why they turned down the option
                          to go to Leinster. Was the money / terms conditions? DC you ever hear
                          anything about the reasons?
                          Nope, not a clue. I'd assume the T&Cs over there were better, and
                          Bracken would be well settled in the UK at this stage. Its a big decision
                          to make considering the Irish team managements attitude to players
                          based abroad
                          Karma

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Dave Cahill
                            Originally posted by McCloud
                            Yeah seem to remember that Cheika expressed
                            suprise that they had signed. Wonder why they turned down the option
                            to go to Leinster. Was the money / terms conditions? DC you ever hear
                            anything about the reasons?
                            Nope, not a clue. I'd assume the T&Cs over there were better, and
                            Bracken would be well settled in the UK at this stage. Its a big decision
                            to make considering the Irish team managements attitude to players
                            based abroad
                            Whatever about Bracken, surely Hogan had every reason t sign with Leinster - his brother was there, lack of depth at international level would mean any starting Irish prop at the 3 main provinces would be considered, better looked after than in England etc. etc.
                            Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
                            Munster: Early Season
                            Munster: Escape from Pool of Death
                            Munster: HEC Champions 2007/2008
                            Munster: Full Season Highlights.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              The way Bristol play (and who coaches them) was probably as big a factor as anything. For all Roly's excellence, Leinster have a bit of a history of signing "finished article" props.

                              Bracken would be closer to the Hayes "lineout prop" than the traditional prop, it's his strenght, not his out and out propping ability that would make him a very good signing, imo.

                              It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

                              Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

                              Comment

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