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How will the new scrum rules affect Munster?

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    How will the new scrum rules affect Munster?

    Tonight’s start of the Currie Cup will also be the first competition where the new Scrum rules are implemented. As a Ref, semi-player, and supporter I’ll definitely be watching that game to see how it goes. I think we all agree these rules will require a big adjustment for the forwards.

    This has me thinking, how will this effect Munster? Especially the first row and SH need to adjust a lot. For some players this will prove more difficult than others. Scrum technique and lower body strength will be more important. I read this would be a disadvantage for the springboks as their props rely a lot on upper body strength to make a strong first hit. So how about BJ? How will Killer and Archer do? How good is Sherry’s hooking when the ball is actually thrown straight? How often (compared to the average SH) did Murray feed the ball?

    So basically looking at last year’s scrum can we make a good predication how we will do with these new rules compared to our competition?
    31
    Help us
    74.19%
    23
    Work against us
    16.13%
    5
    not affect us
    9.68%
    3

    #2
    I have a funny feeling it will help us, particularly Archer. I've always thought that Archer, despite some bad days out, has got a pretty good scrumaging technique. Last year in particular he was noticably lower and had his back in a good straight position, and he's also not so tall that he gives the loosehead a target to get underneath him. Where he has struggled is in attacking the space and being really aggressive in the hit especially later on in games when he was wrecked tired (see Ulster in Ravenhill in 2012). But if the hit is depowered I'd be fairly optimistic that his technique will be good enough to allow him to keep advancing.

    I'd also be hopeful that BJ will benefit too, given that he's not the biggest man you'd think depowering the hit would help him and hopefully if he's not getting beaten in the hit he won't have to resort to driving in on the angle as often as he did last year because refs were really starting to penalise him for that consistently.

    As for Killer I think he's just an out and out animal! He won a lot of penalties in the scrum last year and they were nearly all from driving straight and just out muscling TH's (with the possible exception of a few he got against Ross in TP ) so I think his technique will be more than fine this year. When in his first full senior season he can come on and win a penalty in added time against the head and against what was up to that point a dominant Scottish front row........ then I think there's not a lot that will phase him!!

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      #3
      Originally posted by Chrizzzie View Post
      Tonight’s start of the Currie Cup will also be the first competition where the new Scrum rules are implemented. As a Ref, semi-player, and supporter I’ll definitely be watching that game to see how it goes. I think we all agree these rules will require a big adjustment for the forwards.

      This has me thinking, how will this effect Munster? Especially the first row and SH need to adjust a lot. For some players this will prove more difficult than others. Scrum technique and lower body strength will be more important. I read this would be a disadvantage for the springboks as their props rely a lot on upper body strength to make a strong first hit. So how about BJ? How will Killer and Archer do? How good is Sherry’s hooking when the ball is actually thrown straight? How often (compared to the average SH) did Murray feed the ball?

      So basically looking at last year’s scrum can we make a good predication how we will do with these new rules compared to our competition?
      Romain!?
      He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by redherring View Post
        Romain!?
        You got me

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          #5
          Originally posted by déiseman View Post
          I have a funny feeling it will help us, particularly Archer. I've always thought that Archer, despite some bad days out, has got a pretty good scrumaging technique. Last year in particular he was noticably lower and had his back in a good straight position, and he's also not so tall that he gives the loosehead a target to get underneath him. Where he has struggled is in attacking the space and being really aggressive in the hit especially later on in games when he was wrecked tired (see Ulster in Ravenhill in 2012). But if the hit is depowered I'd be fairly optimistic that his technique will be good enough to allow him to keep advancing.

          I'd also be hopeful that BJ will benefit too, given that he's not the biggest man you'd think depowering the hit would help him and hopefully if he's not getting beaten in the hit he won't have to resort to driving in on the angle as often as he did last year because refs were really starting to penalise him for that consistently.

          As for Killer I think he's just an out and out animal! He won a lot of penalties in the scrum last year and they were nearly all from driving straight and just out muscling TH's (with the possible exception of a few he got against Ross in TP ) so I think his technique will be more than fine this year. When in his first full senior season he can come on and win a penalty in added time against the head and against what was up to that point a dominant Scottish front row........ then I think there's not a lot that will phase him!!
          I would of had Archer down as tall for a tighthead, is he not more than 6 foot?, he is for sure taller than BJ. Being a "long back", I feel this will be a disadvantage to Archer

          just checked the deadsite, his profile has him as 6' 2"

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Ruck Em View Post
            I would of had Archer down as tall for a tighthead, is he not more than 6 foot?, he is for sure taller than BJ. Being a "long back", I feel this will be a disadvantage to Archer

            just checked the deadsite, his profile has him as 6' 2"
            I didn't think he was that tall to be honest, I would have thought he was around 6' 0" like adam jones. 6' 2" is probably pushing it alright but after a quick google I found Castrogiovanni is also 6' 2". I'd still say that I think he does get good and low in the scrum and doesn't seem to have a consistent problem with LH's getting under him and driving him up.

            Comment


              #7
              I think the rules will suit the props on the books once the referees settle down and give consistent adjudication on it.

              Neither Archer or BJ would have been killers on the hit so removing that isn't that big a deal. BJ is the best guy to have around for this change as he's as cute as they come.

              I've had a few goes under these rules and there's much more squeezing and pushing involved then previously. The bench props will get used around the 50 mark because these rules are much more draining on props then before.

              Will the props below Archer, Kilcoyne and BJ be up for it? That's my worry. I've heard an awful lot about how good Ryan is compared to Archer but I've seen very, very little of him at Pro12 level. Is he good enough to last 15-20 minutes at H-Cup level? One injury and that's what you're looking at.
              To The Brave And The Faithful, Nothing Is Unpublishable.

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                #8
                Seeing the game yesterday I was kinda surprised that more of the hit was intact than I'd have thought. I don't think I saw any collapse scrums which is a good thing. Sometimes the scrums did went sideways a few times which was an obvious view of a prop not handling the strength. The ref gave a few penalties for feeding at the beginning when the SH's where testing how far they could go. I also noticed quit a few times props just keeping their hand near the opponents shoulder not actually making a bind. Think that's also something that needs to be look at.

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                  #9
                  haven't seen a game under the new engagement calls yet but I would imagine the one thing that will stand out is how much more of an 8 man discipline the scrum will become this season. Over the last few seasons the backrow seemed to be focused on the initial hit and then it was Meerkat time (head up, focus on opposition and ref and forget about the second shove/chasing the hit).

                  If as speculated the scrums will be longer and take more out of the props then the backrow will need to up their workrates at scrum time and meerkating will be much more frowned upon.
                  \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

                  \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

                  I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

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                    #10
                    Excuse my ignorance but are these new rules going to be implemented at junior level rugby this year or will it still be last years rules?

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                      #11
                      No also at junior level

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                        #12
                        Cheers, I better brush up on these new rules so.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Just saw one of the scrums in the Cheetahs/Lions game. Bizarre seeing the ball being put in the middle of the scrum and getting hooked back

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Good to see Wian Du Preez out there.
                            Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                            Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Scrums look good so far under the new engagement sequence.

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