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Ian Nagle and Dave Foley and the future at Lock.

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    Ian Nagle and Dave Foley and the future at Lock.

    At the end of the upcoming season(2014), 5 of the 6 current locks at Munster will be coming to the end of their contract.

    They will be the following age:
    Donnacha O'Callaghan: 35
    Paul O'Connell: 34
    Donnacha Ryan: 30
    Billy Holland: 28
    Ian Nagle: 25

    The only remaining lock signed up past next season is Dave Foley, who will be 26 at the end of next season. He is obviously rated as he was part of the emerging Ireland squad this summer and was probably the best performing lock on that tour. However, he still has only 17 appearances for Munster to date and he is 25.

    It's obvious to everyone that if POC can continue he will be offered an extension to his centrally contract, probably of one year with the potential to extend it further again if he wants, similar to BOD.

    Donnacha Ryan will be entering his prime and will obviously be extended again under the central contract system unless he leaves for France, however unlikely that may be it has to be considered a possibility.

    Now it get's interesting, DOC has been a great servant to Munster and Ireland but his game in noticeably slowing down, which is to be expected at his advancing age. Might be retire following next season? It's possible, either way he is coming to the end of his illustrious career.

    While you can't doubt Billy Holland's effort and workrate, he is not a Heineken Cup level winning lock, will Munster extend him?

    Finally we reach the enigma that is Ian Nagle, long touted as a future international his career has stalled over the last two seasons. He almost left Munster this season but signed a 1 year extension.

    Some people might tout DOCII as a potential player to watch at lock but as of now it's unclear if he is actually making that transition, others the new academy kids on the block.

    In conclusion, Munster has a rather large question coming up this season who is staying and who is leaving?
    Last edited by Bayern; 1st-July-2013, 17:38.

    #2
    I thought DOC had a fine season, his best in 3 or 4 maybe. But yes he will be retiring in the next year or two most likely.

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      #3
      While i'd agree he had a strong season in comparison to his last couple, he tailed off in the second half. Very strong first half though.

      Is his position at the third lock and Holland's as 4th lock hindering Nagle and Foley's development? after all nothing can beat experience when it comes to a player developing and reaching his development.

      Comment


        #4
        Thing you have to keep in mind about DOC is 1) he's not a drinker and 2) he's a fitness fanatic and 3) he's never had a major injury. If you're looking at miles to go he's got way more left in him than POC and potentially (considering how long he played with problems last season) as long as Ryan at this rate. I'm not joking about that, check back, when has DOC ever had time out with injury. Yes him and Holland are potentially blocking the others but Nagle and Foley are 24/25, if they don't burst through this season the question has to be asked where are they going because even though locks come through later and play later guys heading into their late 20s without anything beyond potential are potentially not going to be international class. Ryan, for all he waited and potentially too long, was around the fringes of the international scene from age the same age as those guys were last season.
        \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Dougie View Post
          I thought DOC had a fine season, his best in 3 or 4 maybe. But yes he will be retiring in the next year or two most likely.
          You Dougie Howlett?
          Gwan Joe!!

          Comment


            #6
            Father Dougal I suspect.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by MrsMcGahan View Post
              Father Dougal I suspect.
              And you the Swami his self I suppose
              Last edited by ustix; 1st-July-2013, 20:42. Reason: clarety
              Gwan Joe!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                Thing you have to keep in mind about DOC is 1) he's not a drinker and 2) he's a fitness fanatic and 3) he's never had a major injury. If you're looking at miles to go he's got way more left in him than POC and potentially (considering how long he played with problems last season) as long as Ryan at this rate. I'm not joking about that, check back, when has DOC ever had time out with injury. Yes him and Holland are potentially blocking the others but Nagle and Foley are 24/25, if they don't burst through this season the question has to be asked where are they going because even though locks come through later and play later guys heading into their late 20s without anything beyond potential are potentially not going to be international class. Ryan, for all he waited and potentially too long, was around the fringes of the international scene from age the same age as those guys were last season.

                you also have to factor in that DOC has never been injured so he has a lot more miles on clock than POC. Almost 70 more games played than Paulie. Eventually that mileage catches up on you.

                Billy Holland is never going to be international class, he is a decent squad player and a good character around the squad.

                Foley and Nagle are being blocked to a certain extent by both DOC and Holland. Of course an argument can be made that it's their job to be better than them and force Penny to pick them over their older competition. But what Nagle and Foley need is experience and they can't get much of that currently.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Pathetic.
                  To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Joking.

                    I've always thought Nagle has had the tools to be a big hit at lock, but I'm wondering about his aggression levels. I don't think Foley will make it.

                    Nagle needs a huge season. We didn't see much from D. Ryan until he was 27/28 so there's still time.
                    To The Brave and the Faithful, Nothing is Unpublishable.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Bayern View Post
                      you also have to factor in that DOC has never been injured so he has a lot more miles on clock than POC. Almost 70 more games played than Paulie. Eventually that mileage catches up on you.

                      Billy Holland is never going to be international class, he is a decent squad player and a good character around the squad.

                      Foley and Nagle are being blocked to a certain extent by both DOC and Holland. Of course an argument can be made that it's their job to be better than them and force Penny to pick them over their older competition. But what Nagle and Foley need is experience and they can't get much of that currently.
                      Only thing I'd potentially disagree with is that the number of games is as big an issue with DOC. He's been part of the Irish squad for the best part of a decade. His time has been managed as well as anyone but without the body draining recovery from major injuries or longer term damage. Look at Stringer at who is 6 months older and is in similar situation to DOC, neither looks ready for the scrap heap.
                      \"A million monkeys with a million crayons would be hard-pressed in a million years to create anything as cretinous as Battlefield Earth.\"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Evil Omer View Post
                        Only thing I'd potentially disagree with is that the number of games is as big an issue with DOC. He's been part of the Irish squad for the best part of a decade. His time has been managed as well as anyone but without the body draining recovery from major injuries or longer term damage. Look at Stringer at who is 6 months older and is in similar situation to DOC, neither looks ready for the scrap heap.
                        Obviously there is pluses and minuses to not being injured.
                        70 extra games would equal 5600 more minutes on the rugby field.
                        Which is a lot combined with the other approx 250 games he has played.
                        Still he should be able to rumble on another season or two if he wants.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I reckon (and hope) that POC and DOC both have about two seasons left in them. I haven't given up hope that Foley, Nagle and DOC2 could all become HEC standard locks and they should be hitting their straps over the coming couple of years. They now need to be given plenty of opportunities to show what they're made of. If two out of the three make it, we'll be doing well.

                          Also have to factor in somebody a bit younger coming through very quickly and relatively unheralded, just as lads like Murray and Kilcoyne did. Wouldn't be all that surprised by that.

                          Worst case scenario, we need to bring in a NIQ in a couple of years. With the front and back rows shaping up very well, and almost entirely made up of home grown young fellas, we'll have room for a high quality import in the row.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            If he can get a contract that suits him I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see Donners end up as the new Simon Shaw. Nobody takes better care of himself from what I hear and his enthusiasm for the game is infectious.

                            EO has nailed it above.

                            Donners aint gonna give up his spot in the 23. Nagle or Foley are gonna have to work damn hard and play a lot better than they have been to win it off him.
                            \"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Dave O'Callaghan.
                              He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

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