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Crouch, Bind, Set! Joe Riddick will have to start all over again :)

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    #46
    Can they change "Set" back to "ENGAGE!!"
    Sounds better. Has more of a woody quality about it.

    The axe that cuts the tree can easily forget, but the tree thats been cut will not forget.

    Originally posted by the plastic paddy
    Gwan the Welsh

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      #47
      Originally posted by Huwie View Post
      Can they change "Set" back to "ENGAGE!!"
      Click image for larger version

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      I am the million man.

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        #48
        Why they can't bring the blindside linesman onto the pitch for the duration of the scrum is beyond me, other sports manage to have more than one official on the pitch for some or all of the game. They have the TMO to fall back on if there's a problem with the linesman out of position.
        If the props bind properly, then surely the only other issue is the drive. WTF is so complicated?
        Last edited by rathbaner; 23rd-July-2013, 17:24.
        Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

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          #49
          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
          I can't see it being good for Buckley. The big hit was a gift to massive props who could boss their opposite number without ever really having to worry about the technicalities, as long as the engage was quick and the ball came out fast.

          Buckley should have thrived, but didn't. Was he too big? Perhaps. But only an inch taller than Hayman. I always suspected that he was too wide if anything. Couldn't see how the unit could bind with him in it.

          He's plenty strong, but he's now going to have to stop loose heads getting into him without the aid of the bang to put manners on them.

          I'd imagine that a good technical loosehead will punish a big man even more under these rules. Tightheads will revert to the Dan Cole/Adam Jones mould - 6/6.2, and the same width from their neck to their arse.
          Scrummaging at the U20 RWC seemed to be referree'd along those lines (no big hits and the scrum had to be really stable before the ref was happy for the ball to go in). The relatively small Irish props performed very well, often against much bigger men. Technique was far more important when the big collision was eliminated.

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            #50
            http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/9...back-says-Cron

            Hookers actually hooking, halfbacks putting the ball in straight - it won't be scrummaging as we've come to know it.

            Rugby's new engagement laws will take scrums back 20 years, to a time when Auckland, and the Blues, buried opposition packs and Zinzan Brooke scored pushover tries in his sleep.

            Wellington's better club players got their first experience of "crouch, bind, set" against Manawatu last week.

            The new laws get a further outing on Friday when the Lions host Canterbury and the All Blacks at the Hutt Recreation Ground.

            First impressions at the Wellington game weren't good, with the scrums still going to ground and a host of technical flaws exposed.

            Given time, the laws will create a massive advantage for the All Blacks and New Zealand Super Rugby teams, says Hurricanes and Lions scrum coach Dan Cron.

            "In my opinion, for the lesser scrums there's no hiding now - no tactics, no hit-and-run. You've got to man up and fight to the death now," Cron said.

            Gone will be ferocious hits that teams used to hide their scrummaging deficiencies, in Cron's opinion, and often led to collapses, penalties and free kicks.

            "Pretty much any South African tighthead [prop] is going to have to sharpen up a bit," said Cron.

            Front rows will now fold in and bind before the referee instructs the halfback to put the ball in. That's the cue to push and without the massive stress caused by the hit, both hookers will have the opportunity to strike for the ball.

            Cron said Hurricanes and All Blacks hooker Dane Coles, for instance, had never been taught to hook, but would have to learn now.

            Barely a second goes by between put-in and the halfback picking the ball up at the No 8's feet now, but Cron suggested it would be four seconds or more under the new laws as pushovers would come back into vogue.

            He began scrum coaching in 2007, and while he remembers what they were like in yesteryear, Cron said his most valuable resource at the moment was father Mike.

            Widely regarded as the world's foremost authority on scrummaging, Mike Cron has worked with the All Blacks since 2004. Father and son have spent hours discussing the new engagement laws.

            "I was just talking to the old man and he's got a great story about where [former Canterbury and All Blacks hooker] Tane Norton hooked the ball with his head, so it's going back to the old school and the old way of scrummaging."

            Friday's match at the Hutt Rec ought to be one-way traffic in Mike Cron and the All Blacks' favour.

            Dan Cron's not too bothered about that, in large part because he agrees with his father that the laws will revive a lost art.

            There will be downsides, as last Wednesday's game showed. Packs rely on timing and referee Richard Kelly was not consistent with his put-in call, which caused collapses.

            Props also need to avoid getting in what Cron calls the "deep squat position" from where they either have to shift their feet back and de-power the scrum, or hang in there and get injured, because their spacing is wrong at the engagement.

            Tighthead props in Super Rugby average 61 minutes of game time but Cron says that will decrease to between 40 and 50 minutes due to extra pushing required at scrum time. That will also change how front-rowers train and eventually the body shape that's required to play there, he said.

            Cron has had Wellington's top props - John Schwalger, Jeffery Toomaga-Allen, Reggie Goodes and Eric Sione - furiously working on the new engagement, as well as working contacts beyond his dad.

            "I had a meeting with Grumpy Muir [former Wellington coach Alan Muir] last week and he said this will be like the early 90s scrums where it was [Sean] Fitzpatrick, [Craig] Dowd and [Olo] Brown, so I'm maybe looking at bringing an old-timer in to show us how they used to do it."

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              #51
              Originally posted by Armin Tamzarian View Post
              As a matter of interest, can anyone remind me of the history of the the call:

              Crouch, touch, set
              Crouch, Touch, Pause, engage

              what else has there been?
              Not a whole lot, it was pretty much close to "everyone ready, go". I'm too young to be entering into the old boys club and remembering this stuff (or probably not) but have a look back to RWC '87. Some of the scrums were set up and over in seconds from the time the ref gave the mark.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61nlWQlx_Es
              there's scrums at the 6 min mark and at 9:45 that give a good example.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U76n7wkd2Jc
              and at the 14 min mark here

              And check out the 8min 10sec point on this one, the "everyone ready" part wasn't even necessary apparently.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HNLFPKOO6U

              Though I could never figure out how the ref managed with everyone wearing grey :)

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                #52
                Originally posted by thoughtless View Post
                Tighthead props in Super Rugby average 61 minutes of game time but Cron says that will decrease to between 40 and 50 minutes due to extra pushing required at scrum time. That will also change how front-rowers train and eventually the body shape that's required to play there, he said.

                Thats good. More, tired props means more space around the pitch. Also if they can get back to the smaller, less athletic props it would be a further bonus.

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                  #53
                  Watching hookers trying to hook the ball will be interesting to say the least.
                  To The Brave And The Faithful, Nothing Is Unpublishable.

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by ZenDC View Post
                    Not a whole lot, it was pretty much close to "everyone ready, go". I'm too young to be entering into the old boys club and remembering this stuff (or probably not) but have a look back to RWC '87. Some of the scrums were set up and over in seconds from the time the ref gave the mark.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61nlWQlx_Es
                    there's scrums at the 6 min mark and at 9:45 that give a good example.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U76n7wkd2Jc
                    and at the 14 min mark here

                    And check out the 8min 10sec point on this one, the "everyone ready" part wasn't even necessary apparently.

                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HNLFPKOO6U

                    Though I could never figure out how the ref managed with everyone wearing grey :)
                    There was also 'crouch and hold...engage'

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                      #55
                      Do the new regulations start in the Rugby championship on the 17th August?

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                        #56
                        The Rabo an Heineken Cup will be using this new sequence, I take it? Are the lads already getting to grips with it in pre-season training?

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by the plastic paddy View Post
                          Do the new regulations start in the Rugby championship on the 17th August?
                          Yes. Initially not scheduled, but the coaches were worried about an advantage for NH teams in the November internationals.

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                            #58
                            Incidentally, where is the bould Joe Riddick lately? Or am I subconsciously not reading every second post
                            When things go wrong, blame McGahan

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                              #59
                              You must have him on ignore BA, sure Joe posts every second entry on here :)
                              "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                              Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                              Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

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                                #60
                                Bernard Jackman on the RTÉ site:

                                "New rules make for a better battle"

                                Among his points are:

                                • " the small but technically good prop has a chance again and may even start to dominate in what was becoming a contest for giants at the professional level."
                                • " it means the hooker’s strike is back in the game. As a former hooker I’m delighted to see that. "
                                • "the props I have spoken to have said that they have to push a lot more than they did under the old rules, but the pain in their necks and shoulders post-match is reduced."
                                • " the different type of effort required from the front row is taking it out of their legs in a big way"
                                • "The end product should be less stoppages for resets and a fairer, more interesting contest. That can only be good for the game."

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