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Do you feel like we're making progress?

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    Do you feel like we're making progress?

    Before you answer, I don't have one myself. At times I look at the young players that have come through and think we've just got to be patient and then at other times I wonder if I'm giving too much benefit of the doubt.

    Treviso last weekend should not happen. We might be missing internationals, but so were they and surely we still put out a strong enough side that is well coached enough to avoid that embarassment. With Connacht's improvement, is it that far beyond the realms of imagination that they could finish above us next season in the Rabo?

    Alternately, we could be at that darkest before dawn point (which I thought was Ospreys last season). In a year or two we might be talking about out top notch players Kilcoyne, Sherry, Archer, O'Donnell, Butler, Stander, Hanrahan, O'Dea etc and how they've all finally delivered.

    Where do you think we really are?

    #2
    It's a mystery. Those of Faith will be rewarded in heaven.
    Non believers will be cursed and forced to wander endlessly like ragged wayfarers of ages past.
    Muttering incoherently into the silent vast.

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      #3
      Simple answer . . .No.

      The bad is outweighing the good in the last 3 - 4 months imo.

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        #4
        I think we're about as bad as we've ever been.
        Seems to only team we can beat with regularity is Embra. Getting stuffed by mediocre teams like Trevisio, Scarletts and Cardiff never happened before.
        We no longer strike fear into others.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Grasshopper View Post
          I think we're about as bad as we've ever been.
          2004
          Played 22,won 10 lost 12.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Kevin77 View Post
            Before you answer, I don't have one myself. At times I look at the young players that have come through and think we've just got to be patient and then at other times I wonder if I'm giving too much benefit of the doubt.

            Treviso last weekend should not happen. We might be missing internationals, but so were they and surely we still put out a strong enough side that is well coached enough to avoid that embarassment. With Connacht's improvement, is it that far beyond the realms of imagination that they could finish above us next season in the Rabo?

            Alternately, we could be at that darkest before dawn point (which I thought was Ospreys last season). In a year or two we might be talking about out top notch players Kilcoyne, Sherry, Archer, O'Donnell, Butler, Stander, Hanrahan, O'Dea etc and how they've all finally delivered.

            Where do you think we really are?
            I thnk this post is spot on. In my view, the jury is out on many of the players mentioned above if we're to be brutally honest. And the way Connacht are building, there has to be a real fear that we end up bottom of the Irish pile.
            Leinster and Ulster are clearly ahead of us; Connacht are improving while seem to e going backwards.

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              #7
              Originally posted by taz View Post
              2004
              Played 22,won 10 lost 12.
              In 2004 we had a squad that was high in quality but light in numbers (no B&I cup etc) so we just focussed on the HC, I dont think thats our problem this year
              My computer thinks I'm gay
              What's the difference anyway
              When all the people do all day
              Is stare into a phone

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                #8
                Originally posted by sewa View Post
                In 2004 we had a squad that was high in quality but light in numbers (no B&I cup etc) so we just focussed on the HC, I dont think thats our problem this year
                I remember those matches and we were brutal that year when the Internationals were away. Agree on the HC,that was always the priority.But I cannot remember a worse league campaign than that season. However stretched the squad was ,we always remained someway competitive in the league.This season and 2004 are as bad as I can recall.
                Last edited by taz; 27th-February-2013, 10:38.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Grasshopper View Post
                  Getting stuffed by mediocre teams like Trevisio, Scarletts and Cardiff never happened before.
                  Maybe the problem is that you are looking down your nose at 'mediocre' teams
                  Every team has their day.
                  The axe that cuts the tree can easily forget, but the tree thats been cut will not forget.

                  Originally posted by the plastic paddy
                  Gwan the Welsh

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                    #10
                    There's no evidence of progress performance or results wise, we're playing a lot more static and with a lot less passion than the first month of Penneyball and our results are some degree worse than McGahan's tenure which had him slated around here. You're either panicking at Penney's tenure or believe he needs more time to work with the team before we'll reap the benefits. I can't imagine anyone could be satisfied by whats going on.

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                      #11
                      I think we're exactly where I thought we'd be - struggling through while new players and new systems are bedded in. I'm not convinced by our approach in the backs, and I'm concerned that we don't always display the sort of aggression and intensity we'd want.

                      But, broadly, I think we're about where we thought we'd be. Getting to a HEC QF this year is a bonus. I'd have liked us to do better in the league, but if the trade off is that we establish JJ, Dineen and others alongside Kilcoyne and Zebo as clear first team options then that's progress I think.

                      The real kicker for me in the pre-Penney era came right at the end. We made two utterly futile signings at the end of last year, as far as I can see, and that hasn't helped.

                      It's compounded the drop off in our player acquisition, I think. Bar Botha, who was a known quantity in the Irish system, we really did fail to make top level signings over the last few years. Stander is a step forward, but I think we desperately need an overhaul of our NIQ slots.

                      I'm not sure we have a single NIQ player that would get a game with Ulster or Leinster. That's a big, big weakness in a squad.
                      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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                        #12
                        I think we're about as bad as we've ever been.
                        Seems to only team we can beat with regularity is Embra. Getting stuffed by mediocre teams like Trevisio, Scarletts and Cardiff never happened before.
                        We no longer strike fear into others.

                        I agree with the above statement totally. When Penney and Mannix arrived I was full of hope but that has now been replaced with frustration and anger. The game agst Treviso was a new low. The total lack of a gameplan was shocking. From the outside, it looks Mannix has brought nothing to Munster. I know passion alone wont get you far but I firmly believe that the lack of passion in the players in this game resulted in the worst result that I can remember. Whatever a player's level of ability they should be willing to go to war for the Munster jersey and willing to leave everything on the pitch. It is time for a clear out, starting with Williams. With every game he is picked for, Penney's judgement is called into question. Casey has been very poor and we havent used James Downey in a way that can get the best out of him.
                        We need to get back to a starting point where first and foremost we are competitive in every game we play whatever team we put out. If we lose then so be it. The days like Scarlets and Cardiff at Musgrave Park are unacceptable and Treviso last weekend has to be a watershed moment for this management team and this squad.
                        We deserve better. OK rant over.

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                          #13
                          Confusion seems to be the most apt word to describe Munster currently, the fans, coaches and players all appear to be confused. We seem to be waiting for things to click every single week, even weeks when Munster win there's an issue, be it with mistakes or indiscipline etc. I've never had too many thoughts about this other than that I felt it is totally inefficient but the dual training base must be playing an issue here. I've thought about this a lot since last Saturday. The expansive, passing game that Penney wants to play is al well and good but each time the players attempt it, there is dropped passes, and balls played behind or the support player is too deep making passes appear too far in front. For me, familiarity is key to this game plan and that means training together everyday. I was sickened to hear that following that defeat Munster are only having one squad session this week before the O's game, how are they meant to fix things in one day? Not even one day, in 2 hours of pitch time and maybe 2 more looking at videos, that is utter madness to me. The murmurings at the start of the season about moving the training to one base kicked up a lot of inter county dick swinging, I was part of the brigade that wanted it to be in cork so I could see players around the place and attend some training sessions as I do from time to time, but now as a Munster fan I don't care where they train, as long as every session is done together.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Huwie View Post
                            Maybe the problem is that you are looking down your nose at 'mediocre' teams
                            Every team has their day.
                            That's absolutely fair comment, definately could not describe Cardiff or Scarlets as medicore teams. I was in Stradey in 2007 when they gave us a good hiding. Might be more accurate to say those sides who 'like us' are struggling this season. Treviso have improved but this was entirely their 2nd string & we had zero passion.
                            Con Artist

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                              #15
                              The mentality should be that every match will be a fight, every team is capable of beating us.
                              Not only does that create success, it also makes for better viewing for fans like me.
                              The last thing I want is to go watch arrogant lads turning out onto the pitch thinking they are SBW and expecting a victory.

                              Maybe the hedonist culture of the last 15 years is taking its toll.
                              The axe that cuts the tree can easily forget, but the tree thats been cut will not forget.

                              Originally posted by the plastic paddy
                              Gwan the Welsh

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