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John Kelly in line to follow Fitzgerald as Munster chief

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    #31
    Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post
    I never referred to Thomond Park as a liability. I referred to the large debt that the current administration have consistantly failed to service over a number of years. Apart from the 10 year ticket money there has been very little money paid off that loan. I also referred to being able to manage a budget properly which given the operating loss of circa 1 million euro last year is a pressing matter.
    Thomond Park is why Munster have a debt. €10m owed (€40m? raised and paid off in 4/5 years). Nothing paid off? Munster got €15 from the IRFU and now owe €10m 4 years later. €5m isn't nothing.
    I would suggest you have a look at the track record of Sears before dismissing him so easily. Also Humphreys is not CEO, that is Shane Logan who has an excellent commerical background to assist Humphreys on the business side of things.
    A fine example of having great credentials - but he hasn't done anything of note for Connacht yet.

    If you listen to Ulster fans, they all think that David Humphreys runs the show. Neither have been there long enough to know whether they are a success or not.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Mardyke Maverick View Post
      This is a stitch up, pure and simple. Why was Kelly, who is just an ex-player with an accountancy degree (10 a penny, I'd say), chosen to oversee the hire of Penney last year?

      The Club Braces have already made their decision, which is to not rock the boat, and appoint an apparatchik to do their bidding.

      This would be all well and good if Munster were still flying high and winning HECs, but we're running a trading loss of 1million, year on year, and have a long term debt of 10 million that we can't even service the interest on. Having lost our main sponsor in the height of a recession, what we now need is an objective CEO, who has experience of running large organizations, not a relatively recent retiree, who has little more than an accountacy degree, and has never run an organization even a fraction of the size of Munster.

      If Kelly's appointed and RoG/Howlett have their contracts renewed, Munster end up looking like a head-in-the-sand, amateur organization.
      It depends on what you're looking for.
      The most important bottom line is success on the field.
      Get that and the rest is easy.
      So they think Kelly is the man to oversee that.
      Munster is still one of the biggest 'brands'. You'd have to think they know something.
      Calling it a stitch up by the Con mafia is a bit wild.
      Promotional/financial wizards are 10 a penny.
      That expertise can be bought.
      Last edited by MrsMcGahan; 23rd-January-2013, 11:07.

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        #33
        A very bright fella, who has huge respect from the players that he played with. Has a great understanding of the game and understands Munster and what they are about. OK he may not have a lot of big commercial experience that folks here are craving for but anything that Kelly does is done well.
        I'd be happy with him.

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          #34
          Originally posted by wrangy View Post
          A very bright fella, who has huge respect from the players that he played with. Has a great understanding of the game and understands Munster and what they are about. OK he may not have a lot of big commercial experience that folks here are craving for but anything that Kelly does is done well.
          I'd be happy with him.
          He is very, very smart, no question about it.
          Ceterum censeo INM irrumandum esse.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Red October View Post
            The man has a fine playing history. But has what, six years, post playing commercial experience. Doing what? Leading a business? Or as a middle-management beancounter? Being a qualified accountant is worthy of precisely zero respect IMO, save what you can accord for it proving him to be reasonably intelligent, reasonably numerate and able to hack prolonged periods of study.

            Connacht bring in a man proven in sports management.

            We are looking to bring in a man proven in what precisely?

            We have faffed around for long enough with coaching staff who were learning on the job when we'd have been better to have coaches who had the bulk of the learning behind them and were in the full-on application of learning mode. Are we going to be guilty of the same again?

            Or do we merely want a guy who can read a balance sheet, and is protected by his legacy as an ex-player and all-round nice guy, as he wields his scalpel?

            Not to mention that most Munster of all requirements: the Cork Con forcefield...

            For the record: unless someone can outline the man's commercial achievements to me, then I would regard his being in contention as underwhelming and not a good sign; let alone his appointment to the role.

            I'm, frankly, shocked and more than a little worried.


            Perhaps he has been seconded to Noisy at Musgraves, that would keep the Con "elite" happy

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by MrsMcGahan View Post
              It depends on what you're looking for. The best that Munster can afford and attract.

              The most important bottom line is success on the field - True, but unless we have financial success off the field then we'll continue rooting in the bargain bin for NIQs like Tokula, when Leinster can go off and get Thorn.

              Get that and the rest is easy. So they think Kelly is the man to oversee that. Munster is still one of the biggest 'brands'. You'd have to think they know something. If that was true then why was Fitz forced to go to the papers and to tell the world and his wife that Toyota were gone and we needed a main sponsor asap. Strikes me as desperation, and hardly becoming behaviou of one of the 'biggest brands', as you describe us.

              Calling it a stitch up by the Con mafia is a bit wild. Never said it was a Con stitch up. I'm certain that all the Munster clubs are involed in getting Kelly appointed as their biy.

              Promotional/financial wizards are 10 a penny. No they're not, and even if they were why would you appoint a guy like Kelly with no CEO experience (or anything even close to that) and on a hugh wedge and then turn around and say, well we've got the face, now let's go out and spend another hugh wedge on bringing in the brains and experience. Absolute jokeshop material, though typical of MR!

              That expertise can be bought. True, and we're going to be paying at least double what we need to, by your criteria.
              See above.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by jeepers View Post
                Thomond Park is why Munster have a debt. €10m owed (€40m? raised and paid off in 4/5 years). Nothing paid off? Munster got €15 from the IRFU and now owe €10m 4 years later. €5m isn't nothing.


                A fine example of having great credentials - but he hasn't done anything of note for Connacht yet.

                If you listen to Ulster fans, they all think that David Humphreys runs the show. Neither have been there long enough to know whether they are a success or not.
                Have a look at the IRFU accounts and the notes in them. In 2009 there was a repayment of circa 4 million to bring the loan down to 10.4 million - afaik this was the money raised from the 10 year tickets. For the accounts for the financial year to the end of April 2012 that loan stood at 10.25 million. 150k net repayments in 3 years. Since 2009 the terms of repayment that were agreed have not been met.


                The loan is due to be repaid in full by 30/04/17 so I'd love to know how it will be repaid given the current issue with the repayment schedule. That loan is for a 50% share of the stadium so the default option looks to be for the IRFU to take full ownership.
                Last edited by overthehillprop; 23rd-January-2013, 11:54.
                \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

                \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

                I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: John Kelly in line to follow Fitzgerald as Munster chief

                  Hendo anyone?

                  http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/rob-henderson/3b/5b7/754
                  Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by jeepers View Post

                    If you listen to Ulster fans, they all think that David Humphreys runs the show. Neither have been there long enough to know whether they are a success or not.
                    Humphreys certainly pulls all the strings for matters on the pitch including hiring and firing the coaching staff and player recruitment and contracts but he isn't responsible for off the pitch things and that comes under the CEO.

                    So for Ulster, the CEO would be looking after things like the ground redevelopment, the overall match day experience and the budget that Humph needs to work within.

                    This is pretty similar to most US pro sports where there is a general manager role who looks after the playing side and a CEO/President type role who looks after the overall business.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      It's not John Kelly. That is all for now.
                      We'll engrave your name in gold, as we did in days of old.
                      Roll along lovely Axel, roll along.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post
                        Have a look at the IRFU accounts and the notes in them. In 2009 there was a repayment of circa 4 million to bring the loan down to 10.4 million - afaik this was the money raised from the 10 year tickets. For the accounts for the financial year to the end of April 2012 that loan stood at 10.25 million. 150k repayments in 3 years. Since 2009 the terms of repayment that were agreed have not been met.
                        The IRFU are unlikely to put Munster into Nama. The IRFU say they are not worried about it, so why should Munster. Thomond Park is going to earn some money this year with concerts, soccer & rugby league. That should help get back on track. Its not as if there is a recession on.

                        The loan is due to be repaid in full by 30/04/17 so I'd love to know how it will be repaid given the current issue with the repayment schedule. That loan is for a 50% share of the stadium so the default option looks to be for the IRFU to take full ownership.
                        The default option would be for the IRFU to retain its 50% interest in the Thomond Park Stadium - a hell of a better situation than say Leinster are in with regard to the RDS.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Mardyke Maverick View Post
                          See above.
                          No one is getting appointed to anything right now.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by jeepers View Post
                            The IRFU are unlikely to put Munster into Nama. The IRFU say they are not worried about it, so why should Munster. Thomond Park is going to earn some money this year with concerts, soccer & rugby league. That should help get back on track. Its not as if there is a recession on.



                            The default option would be for the IRFU to retain its 50% interest in the Thomond Park Stadium - a hell of a better situation than say Leinster are in with regard to the RDS.
                            Doesn't the money from concerts etc go to the management company to pay off the debts of Thomond Park and not towards the branch loan?
                            \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

                            \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

                            I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post
                              Doesn't the money from concerts etc go to the management company to pay off the debts of Thomond Park and not towards the branch loan?
                              The branch loan (initially 15m) was for the redevelopment of Thomond Park (and the 50% stake the IRFU have in the Stadium is the security on that loan).

                              I'd still say that owing €10.5m on a €50m stadium is nothing 4 years after it was redeveloped.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                In fairness to Garrett Fitzgerald he has done a really great job at Munster Rugby. When you think of where they have come from in terms of the transition from the amateur days when he took over, to where Munster Rugby is today the progress, professionalism, savy commercialisation of the brand, new stadiums, training facilities, sponsors, etc, etc, etc he and his team have been fantastic.

                                I admit I'm biased, Garrett coached me both in school and in college so I know him well and have always admired him. Though there have also been a good few days when I felt like giving him a box I remember meeting him on the train comig down from Dublin not long after he was appointed to the Munster job and we had a good chat over the journey. Listening to him then, I knew the IRFU had got the right guy for the job and Munster Rugby under his leadership has gone from strength to strength which is a credit to him in fairness.

                                I don't know who will be appointed and I take some guy's points in posts here about Kelly's relative inexperience, as against that in Kelly Munster Rugby would be getting a guy bang up to date with the requirements of professional rugby, who knows Munster Rugby intimately (very important IMHO), a diligent, personable and very intelligent kind of guy, who is professionally trained as an accountant and who you would feel could grow into the role and probably excel quickly enough. He is slightly inexperienced, he is also young and vibrant, is a hard worker and would develop as a CEO quickly. A year or two as CEO designate to Garrett would be the way to go to bring him on IMHO. I'd like to see him appointed tbh.
                                ____________________________________________
                                Munster were great when they were Munster.

                                alas they are just north munster now.......
                                ____________________________________________

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