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    #46
    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



    Doris was picked at 8.

    Who was picked at 6 and 7 ?
    Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

      Who was picked at 6 and 7 ?

      What are you on about? The point I was making is that the only person who's been picked ahead of O'Mahony at 6 is Stander, who then re-asserted his position at 8.



      It's history anyway. I didn't say POM would have his central contract renewed. I just pointed out that for a provincial captain, and a player of his level and experience to be cut from a central contract at his age is (as far as I can remember) pretty unprecedented.

      It could well happen, yes. And it's all the more reason to wonder what the **** is going on.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

      Comment


        #48
        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



        Doris was picked at 8.

        Yeah, fine but he was the one to get dropped so Doris could come into the side. That proves my point about his spot being under threat. He wants Doris in the team, but isn't willing to give up CJ, so POM was the one to go to the bench.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

          Yeah, fine but he was the one to get dropped so Doris could come into the side. That proves my point about his spot being under threat. He wants Doris in the team, but isn't willing to give up CJ, so POM was the one to go to the bench.
          In a pressure match, O Mahony every time.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

            Yeah, fine but he was the one to get dropped so Doris could come into the side. That proves my point about his spot being under threat. He wants Doris in the team, but isn't willing to give up CJ, so POM was the one to go to the bench.


            Maybe. It was Scotland, and it's just as easy to interpret it as him wanting to experiment at 8 and still keep CJs carrying. Either way....my point stands. I can't think of a player of POM's standing that has lost a central contract at this point in his career.

            O'Brien was getting them when he was carrying his knees around in his kit bag.

            I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing from an Ireland perspective, I'm not saying POM should still be picked or even that he should get the contract.

            I'm just saying that him losing it would be worthy of note, and that the I don't think it would be to the credit of those coaching him at Provincial level.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


              What are you on about? The point I was making is that the only person who's been picked ahead of O'Mahony at 6 is Stander, who then re-asserted his position at 8.



              It's history anyway. I didn't say POM would have his central contract renewed. I just pointed out that for a provincial captain, and a player of his level and experience to be cut from a central contract at his age is (as far as I can remember) pretty unprecedented.

              It could well happen, yes. And it's all the more reason to wonder what the **** is going on.
              I just thought it was a bit pedantic saying Doris was picked @ 8.

              I don't really have a position on a central contract, but it seems to me that Stander is still stuck with a whole lot of hard carrying that you would expect a 6 to be sharing.
              Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

                I just thought it was a bit pedantic saying Doris was picked @ 8.

                I don't really have a position on a central contract, but it seems to me that Stander is still stuck with a whole lot of hard carrying that you would expect a 6 to be sharing.


                It might be pedantic, but I think it's reasonable to point out that it wasn't a straight head to head call. There were a fair number of moving parts there, and we're guessing as to what drove them.

                POM isn't a massive carrier, and never has been, true. But he wasn't a massive carrier when he was picked for the Lions - there's more than one way of filling a 6 shirt.


                As I mentioned above, I've no idea what will happen with him or what the thinking will be. But I think it's fair to say that he's not currently being given a great platform to show his stuff, and whatever is going on the current set up hasn't given him a leg up in terms of form or profile.


                I guess at the back of it all he doesn't currently seem to me a man tremendously happy in his work, or to be a vocal champion of whatever is going on in the Munster set up.
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                  It might be pedantic, but I think it's reasonable to point out that it wasn't a straight head to head call. There were a fair number of moving parts there, and we're guessing as to what drove them.

                  POM isn't a massive carrier, and never has been, true. But he wasn't a massive carrier when he was picked for the Lions - there's more than one way of filling a 6 shirt.


                  As I mentioned above, I've no idea what will happen with him or what the thinking will be. But I think it's fair to say that he's not currently being given a great platform to show his stuff, and whatever is going on the current set up hasn't given him a leg up in terms of form or profile.


                  I guess at the back of it all he doesn't currently seem to me a man tremendously happy in his work, or to be a vocal champion of whatever is going on in the Munster set up.
                  fair enough, he's been a good servant to Munster Rugby and has put in some great performances in the Green but for me Stander is a better 6 and POM would probably have been a great 7...

                  on a totally unrelated note I always felt that SOB would have been better playing at 6 so wtf do I know
                  Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

                    fair enough, he's been a good servant to Munster Rugby and has put in some great performances in the Green but for me Stander is a better 6 and POM would probably have been a great 7...

                    on a totally unrelated note I always felt that SOB would have been better playing at 6 so wtf do I know


                    I think Stander is a better wrecking ball style 6 - big hits, big carries. In the Leamy, Ferris mould.

                    POM is a rangey, sticky, awkward presence who is going to spend 80 minutes disrupting and spoiling whatever the opposition want to do. Quinlan, Easterby have done this before. POM takes it to a different level I think, I remember Schmidt saying about him at the last world cup..."maybe not as many moments, but the big moments, and they count".


                    Horses for courses from an Ireland perspective I think, and very dependent on who else is being selected around them.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                      It might be pedantic, but I think it's reasonable to point out that it wasn't a straight head to head call. There were a fair number of moving parts there, and we're guessing as to what drove them.

                      POM isn't a massive carrier, and never has been, true. But he wasn't a massive carrier when he was picked for the Lions - there's more than one way of filling a 6 shirt.


                      As I mentioned above, I've no idea what will happen with him or what the thinking will be. But I think it's fair to say that he's not currently being given a great platform to show his stuff, and whatever is going on the current set up hasn't given him a leg up in terms of form or profile.


                      I guess at the back of it all he doesn't currently seem to me a man tremendously happy in his work, or to be a vocal champion of whatever is going on in the Munster set up.
                      This is certainly true.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

                        This is going to sound daft, but at Leeds United's training ground there were two main pitches and between those pitches there was a mound of earth. When Marcelo Bielsa arrived he demanded the mound was removed, psychologically he didn't want his squad to think they had to get over a hill to train. He also demanded the derelict pool be refilled and operational to show that Leeds believed they were a top team and top teams have swimming pools. He had a blue line painted on the road from his flat to the ground so he could cycle to work without worrying about getting lost

                        Is there that level of alteration and eeeeeking out those 1 percent gains happening for the last 4 or 5 years? Is there that burning hunger to level up? Are people demanding that from themselves or those around them?
                        The facilities in UL are supposedly "world-class" and we've one of the best stadia in Europe, what more do we actually need to provide in nuts and bolts terms to the players to let them perform?

                        I'm convinced everyone is trying to work in the right direction for Munster but I don't think we've ever solved the issue with the sheer lack of players coming through from North Munster. It's worrying that tighthead from Hawaii is a better prospect than anyone North Munster has produced since the mid 1990's.

                        Given our paucity of players, to some degree Munster have over-achieved in getting repeatedly to semi-finals, imo.
                        It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

                        Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by JoeyFantastic View Post

                          The facilities in UL are supposedly "world-class" and we've one of the best stadia in Europe, what more do we actually need to provide in nuts and bolts terms to the players to let them perform?

                          I'm convinced everyone is trying to work in the right direction for Munster but I don't think we've ever solved the issue with the sheer lack of players coming through from North Munster. It's worrying that tighthead from Hawaii is a better prospect than anyone North Munster has produced since the mid 1990's.

                          Given our paucity of players, to some degree Munster have over-achieved in getting repeatedly to semi-finals, imo.
                          What do you do to change North Munster for the better in developing players?
                          The facilities in UL are world class. And yes we have over achieved to be honest....

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                            What do you do to change North Munster for the better in developing players?
                            The facilities in UL are world class. And yes we have over achieved to be honest....
                            Would do what Limerick hurling did. Concentrate resources on one city school and set up a rugby skills academy for underage players from all over North Munster to attend. Properly directed resources make a huge difference for St Michaels, and did likewise for Bandon Grammar and Glenstal recently.

                            Let the composite club schools side compete properly in the senior cup (wasn't following it too closely, weren't they prevented from proceeding to the knock out stages?).
                            It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.

                            Every plan I have is the best plan in the room. Everybody get quiet and listen to it, and everybody will win

                            Comment


                              #59


                              No team that can't execute a strike move off a scrum or line out can be described as over achieving.
                              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Originally posted by JoeyFantastic View Post

                                Would do what Limerick hurling did. Concentrate resources on one city school and set up a rugby skills academy for underage players from all over North Munster to attend. Properly directed resources make a huge difference for St Michaels, and did likewise for Bandon Grammar and Glenstal recently.

                                Let the composite club schools side compete properly in the senior cup (wasn't following it too closely, weren't they prevented from proceeding to the knock out stages?).
                                Well the composite clubs side in the schools dont need to play in the knock out games as the players will have the munster cup etc to play in after christmas. The pre christmas group games are good for extra games for some of those players. Add a second composite side and have two composite sides in the junior competition as well.
                                Provincial income cant and shouldnt be directed towards one school. The money for michaels, bandon grammar and glenstal is all private money from past pupils, parents etc.
                                There is regional set up already in place with cadets etc. Expand that and then and more importantly have coaches coached more on best practice and give clubs help in the areas they mightnt be able to compete with schools in terms of S&C etc

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