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P14 Semi final) Munster and Leinster. Friday 19.35

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    Originally posted by Mumhain View Post
    I think Murray Kinsella’s article on the 42 does a good job summarising Munster’s issues in attack. The first Munster ruck he highlights shows 7 Munster forwards within about 5 meters of the ruck. After the second ruck, Stander was the only player acting as a viable carrying option in attack, with a similar amount of forwards hanging around the ruck without offering themselves as decoy runners. This meant the Munster backs were nearly always outnumbered in attack and if the Leinster players held any sort of depth in defense, the Munster back line were unlikely to create an overlap. It also meant that Leinster could afford to have two/three guys in the back field to cover any box-kicks/crossfield kicks Munster produced.


    It has been said for some time, but unless the Munster attack can move to one of the more modern attacking shapes that involves the backs and forwards attacking as one unit, we are unlikely to close the gap on the top teams. It’s the number one issue that has to be addressed, and more important than adding more ball-carriers imo. Look at the way Ulster played tonight and have played for the last year. Their forward pack isn’t exactly loaded with ball-carriers, but they don’t use that as an excuse to play limited rugby.
    This is the sort of thing which gets me upset. It doesn't even require some genius level thinking, just play a little deeper and let Stander, Farrell and DDA come onto the ball at pace if you want to play a direct power style. Those three guys have power, and two of them can offload pretty well, but you have to put them into a position where the power and skill can be best utilized. Murray needs to speed it up, even if the pack isn't always going forward just to keep the defense from getting totally set b/c that is when they are able to drive carriers backwards; it is much tougher to do when you're just getting behind the offside line and the next carrier is already barreling towards the line.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post



      Plenty of teams would be happy to be where Munster are and with the talent they have coming thru in the next few seasons.
      I think that's true. And yet we know we could replay any one of those semi finals 5 times and the result would be the same.


      We've managed to stagnate at a reasonably high level. In relative terms, if we look at the rugby landscape in 2008, we're now Perpignan.

      European quarter finalists if the draw isn't to ****ty, semifinalists if it's kind, and getting to the play offs in our league.


      Of course Perp are a D2 side now so it's all relative.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

      Comment


        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


        I'm not just being argumentative here, but Flannery and Jones both quit.
        Excellent Murray Kinsella interview with Fla this morning, where Jerry talks about his new role at Quin's, his experience at Munster, the culture and work ethic there, and his reasons for leaving.

        I'm not seeing what others seem to see. But see for yourself.
        https://www.the42.ie/jerry-flannery-...urce=shortlink
        Last edited by rathbaner; 6-September-2020, 09:13.
        Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

        Comment


          For those who think the loss was down to Conor Murray, Tom Savage had a look back at his role and makes the point that if your forwards are going backwards, box kicking, if done well, is a viable alternative:
          "Our second box kick lead to a penalty to make it 3-0.

          Our third box kick lead a kick receipt that should have been a Munster penalty for Larmour holding JJ in at the ruck but poor Andrew Brace blew a decision he was literally looking at.



          Our fourth box kick lead to a good kick competition and earned a kick transition opportunity when Leinster kicked it back.

          Our fifth box kick pressured the Leinster receipt, earned a kick back and Munster won a penalty from the first collision off the kick receipt.

          Our sixth box kick saw Conway winning the ball back in the air.

          Our seventh box kick could have been a penalty to Munster after Kelleher changed his line to block Andrew Conway.



          Our eight box kick could have been a Munster penalty at the breakdown for (a) not releasing on Will Connors (b) a neck roll on Beirne by Toner or (c) Peter O’Mahony stealing the ball. Andrew Brace awarded a Leinster penalty instead, telling O’Mahony that “you’re the second man in and the ball wasn’t out” but there was no Leinster player on their feet so there was no ruck.



          And I could go on.

          Box kicking wasn’t the problem. Our inability to build sustained pressure on Leinster once the scenarios we wanted to generate from our box kicking was the problem.
          "
          Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

          Comment


            Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
            For those who think the loss was down to Conor Murray, Tom Savage had a look back at his role and makes the point that if your forwards are going backwards, box kicking, if done well, is a viable alternative:
            "Our second box kick lead to a penalty to make it 3-0.

            Our third box kick lead a kick receipt that should have been a Munster penalty for Larmour holding JJ in at the ruck but poor Andrew Brace blew a decision he was literally looking at.



            Our fourth box kick lead to a good kick competition and earned a kick transition opportunity when Leinster kicked it back.

            Our fifth box kick pressured the Leinster receipt, earned a kick back and Munster won a penalty from the first collision off the kick receipt.

            Our sixth box kick saw Conway winning the ball back in the air.

            Our seventh box kick could have been a penalty to Munster after Kelleher changed his line to block Andrew Conway.



            Our eight box kick could have been a Munster penalty at the breakdown for (a) not releasing on Will Connors (b) a neck roll on Beirne by Toner or (c) Peter O’Mahony stealing the ball. Andrew Brace awarded a Leinster penalty instead, telling O’Mahony that “you’re the second man in and the ball wasn’t out” but there was no Leinster player on their feet so there was no ruck.



            And I could go on.

            Box kicking wasn’t the problem. Our inability to build sustained pressure on Leinster once the scenarios we wanted to generate from our box kicking was the problem.
            "
            So ref could have awarded 470 penalties to Munster.

            Comment


              Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
              For those who think the loss was down to Conor Murray, Tom Savage had a look back at his role and makes the point that if your forwards are going backwards, box kicking, if done well, is a viable alternative:

              And I could go on.

              Box kicking wasn’t the problem. Our inability to build sustained pressure on Leinster once the scenarios we wanted to generate from our box kicking was the problem.
              "[/INDENT]
              The problem was despite this we kept doing it, and seemed to have no other alternative available.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Turlough1 View Post

                So ref could have awarded 470 penalties to Munster.
                If the ref was Tom Savage...
                Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                Comment


                  Jerry has too much class to bash Munster, but reading between the lines he and Felix were shafted (the latter didn't have the South Africa world cup offer before effectively being pushed to resign).

                  Comment


                    The ladies can laugh all they want, but they are now in the enviable position of being the best and the best at cheating, on this island... same as us last decade...
                    also, i reckon Munster Saracens and maybe Clermont(Away)/Racing are the only teams they will play full strength against...
                    He was as lame as a duck. Not the metaphorical lame duck either, but a real duck that was actually lame. Maybe from stepping on a land mine or something.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Turlough1 View Post

                      So ref could have awarded 470 penalties to Munster.
                      In fairness, he could have awarded a lot more than he did. He had a terrible first half in particular. When Leinster are under any pressure, they’re as cynical a team as you’ll see - holding in by players like Larmour and Lowe is something they’ve been coached to do and is blatantly obvious.

                      Brace was completely naive. It would take a ref with some nous, and some balls, to penalise them for that ****e. The most he did was shout at them not to do it, which is worse than missing it entirely.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                        In fairness, he could have awarded a lot more than he did. He had a terrible first half in particular. When Leinster are under any pressure, they’re as cynical a team as you’ll see - holding in by players like Larmour and Lowe is something they’ve been coached to do and is blatantly obvious.

                        Brace was completely naive. It would take a ref with some nous, and some balls, to penalise them for that ****e. The most he did was shout at them not to do it, which is worse than missing it entirely.
                        The first time he told Leinster not to hold him in it was Scannell lying there in the way and he wasn't going anywhere.
                        Anyway blue 2 double movement and red 22 joining the maul in front of the ball carrier are the obvious ones he missed.
                        Last edited by Turlough1; 6-September-2020, 12:42.

                        Comment


                          I wish our biggest problems were moaning about referees.
                          I am the million man.

                          Comment


                            What I can’t stand, probably more than the loss itself, is the amount of abuse being aimed online at a few players and coaches, and it’s from all sides, from non Munster supporters (really, get a life) the media, who are enjoying this a little too much and apparent Munster supporters. I say apparent because some of the toxic crap that is being aimed at them online wouldn’t be done by someone who genuinely supports the team. I don’t care how pissed off you are. It’s well documented how dark things got a few years ago when we weren’t doing well.

                            Is it gutting that we lost, yes, did we play well, no. Does that mean it’s open season on the players and management, absolutely not. Be annoyed and frustrated fine, people are entitled to feel like that, but **** happens, we will regroup and go again in a few weeks. We didn’t play well but we’re not a million miles away.

                            We weren’t good enough to win, we played really poorly and could gave still gotten a result. Between Carbery’s injury set back, losing our most impactful front five players in one game, that was all before kickoff. Between the double movement try, a should have been penalty, added on the mid game injuries to Conway and Hanrahan and it continues to compound itself. We were **** out of luck, you need more than luck but if it weren’t for our bad luck we’d have no luck at all.

                            We saw some really exciting moments in attack in the first two games and that’s a lot of promise.
                            We have a a lot of exciting young, extremely hard working players coming through, who will get a lot of game time next season, add them in with our top international players and there’s a lot to look forward to next season.
                            Last edited by Stringer9; 6-September-2020, 13:27.
                            The Maul is Back!! LONG LIVE THE MAUL!!

                            Stringer is bigger even than his own immense shadow. Pound for pound, he is the best tackler in the world. If you put him into bag of cats he\'d come out without a scratch. He was hit very late for Murphy\'s try. And when he got up, as we knew he would, the crowd cried his name as if he had just fixed the economy.Billy Keane-After Munster\'s famous loss to the AB\'s.

                            The Bull-Truly irreplaceable, a mountain of a man. 100 caps!!

                            Comment


                              Just watched the extended highlights. Couldn't bring myself to watch them yesterday. As i thought. The number of questionable decisions that fell in Leinsters favor heavily outweighed the ones we got.

                              Playing the Champions away with some key players, a shocking game plan and it took a double movement to try to beat us.

                              There are many more positives than negatives that are within the squad and managements power to control. This 'Trumpish' line, about Leinster playing in second gear and within themselves, is utter drivel. Why would they need to cheat then? Why were so desperate to fool the referee into giving them penalties they didn't earn? Only a team who are not confident of victory will resort to cheating.

                              Comment


                                Can we stop talking about the try. We scored 3 points. Even without the try they scored 6. We lost because we were second best, and JJ under pressure is a poor kicker.

                                Comment

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