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    McFadden & RobK allowed to stay on for this, 'til the end of 2019/20 season
    Nulla semper amicus, servivit mihi, in iniuriam mihi neminem quem non persolvi

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      Originally posted by galinka View Post
      The next great no 10 is already with Munster and its not Joey
      What I’ve seen of Jack Crowley he seems to have a lot of ability good footballer big and strong and good open field runner.Maybe he will end up at fullback.Jake Flannery also seems more suited there but Ben Healy looks like an out half and similar to the Byrnes of Leinster.Haven’t seen enough of them all to make a definitive decision but maybe others can give their thoughts.

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        Originally posted by POPEYE View Post
        What I’ve seen of Jack Crowley he seems to have a lot of ability good footballer big and strong and good open field runner.Maybe he will end up at fullback.Jake Flannery also seems more suited there but Ben Healy looks like an out half and similar to the Byrnes of Leinster.Haven’t seen enough of them all to make a definitive decision but maybe others can give their thoughts.
        What I look for in a 10, in addition to good hands, feet and mobility, is the ability to read a game and control it, and to stick with it despite pressure. In the u20 games this year He demonstrated all of these qualities in spades. Frankly if we can do better than him at 10, and Casey at 9, then the future is bright indeed.

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          Originally posted by POPEYE View Post
          What I’ve seen of Jack Crowley he seems to have a lot of ability good footballer big and strong and good open field runner.Maybe he will end up at fullback.Jake Flannery also seems more suited there but Ben Healy looks like an out half and similar to the Byrnes of Leinster.Haven’t seen enough of them all to make a definitive decision but maybe others can give their thoughts.
          Harry looks sharper and quicker than Ross to me - Ross seems to do well under pressure not sure Harry has had much of that.

          Now that Munster have such a strong pack it's ideal for 1 or more of Healy, Flannery and Crowley to be given game time.

          Kiss of death alert...

          Based on limited info I could see a battle for the Ireland jersey between Harry and Crowley.
          ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

          Originally Posted by mr chips
          AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

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            Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

            Harry looks sharper and quicker than Ross to me - Ross seems to do well under pressure not sure Harry has had much of that.

            Now that Munster have such a strong pack it's ideal for 1 or more of Healy, Flannery and Crowley to be given game time.

            Kiss of death alert...

            Based on limited info I could see a battle for the Ireland jersey between Harry and Crowley.
            Hopefully you’re right about Ross Byrne being good under pressure, I wouldn’t be as confident. In the biggest game of his career, against England in the WC warm-up, his whole game ( kicking, passing, decision-making ) appeared to fall apart after missing a few tackles on Tuilagi. It may have cost him his world cup selection and ultimately forced Schmidt’s hands into the selection of an injured-Carbery.

            Agree about Harry Byrne, I’d rate him as the most rounded of the young fly-halves in Ireland. Fly-half has probably been the weakest area of our squad at the last two World Cups, so hopefully the young options can turn it into an area of real depth for Ireland, going forward.
            Last edited by Mumhain; 26-June-2020, 10:24.

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              Haven’t had a chance to see much of Flannery yet. Crowley looked very very good for the U20s. Very complete player for his age.

              Healy did really well when he got his chance last season. He has a good skill set and is very composed - natural authority in the way he conducts himself on the field. Fairly big guy too, which helps.

              Serious talent between the three of them.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Mumhain View Post

                Hopefully you’re right about Ross Byrne being good under pressure, I wouldn’t be as confident. In the biggest game of his career, against England in the WC warm-up, his whole game ( kicking, passing, decision-making ) appeared to fall apart after missing a few tackles on Tuilagi. It may have cost him his world cup selection and ultimately forced Schmidt’s hands into the selection of an injured-Carbery.

                Agree about Harry Byrne, I’d rate him as the most rounded of the young fly-halves in Ireland. Fly-half has probably been the weakest area of our squad at the last two World Cups, so hopefully the young options can turn it into an area of real depth for Ireland, going forward.


                It's been a strange position for Ireland for so long. On one level we've been blessed to have two absolutely outstanding, world class test 10's come along one after the other. Since 2002 or so, our first choice 10 has been in the top handful in the world in their position.


                And yet, at the same time, the two of them are arguably the only true test level 10's we've produced in 20 years.

                We've had guys like Jackson and Madigan who had their moments, and now we have the "what happens next" with Carbery, Byrne and Carty.

                But bar a relatively brief overlap between Sexton and ROG, it's been a very long time since there was actually sustained competition or depth.



                Right now, England would back themselves against us whether they played Ford or Farrell at 10. We'd throw Sexton out at Twickenham if we had to stick him together with tape.
                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                  It's been a strange position for Ireland for so long. On one level we've been blessed to have two absolutely outstanding, world class test 10's come along one after the other. Since 2002 or so, our first choice 10 has been in the top handful in the world in their position.


                  And yet, at the same time, the two of them are arguably the only true test level 10's we've produced in 20 years.

                  We've had guys like Jackson and Madigan who had their moments, and now we have the "what happens next" with Carbery, Byrne and Carty.

                  But bar a relatively brief overlap between Sexton and ROG, it's been a very long time since there was actually sustained competition or depth.



                  Right now, England would back themselves against us whether they played Ford or Farrell at 10. We'd throw Sexton out at Twickenham if we had to stick him together with tape.
                  And of course further back we had both Ollie Campbell and Tony Ward , either of whom would have graced most other teams. Despite how good Sexton has been, and what seems a raft of talent coming through in Munster and Leinster, pickings are certainly very thin just a the moment. I’m sure you’re right though, we’d field Jonny for such a game, even though the alternatives aren’t going to get any better sitting in the stands.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                    And of course further back we had both Ollie Campbell and Tony Ward , either of whom would have graced most other teams. Despite how good Sexton has been, and what seems a raft of talent coming through in Munster and Leinster, pickings are certainly very thin just a the moment. I’m sure you’re right though, we’d field Jonny for such a game, even though the alternatives aren’t going to get any better sitting in the stands.


                    Campbell/Ward, a brief tussle between ROG and Humphs, then only really a season or so of Sexton and ROG properly competing.


                    We've been tremendously fortunate in how they've timed themselves, really, but we should be producing more.

                    ROG is 43.

                    Sexton is 34.

                    Ross Byrne is 25. Carbery 24.


                    We're batting at an average of a test fly half every 9/10 years between all four Provinces.


                    I know there's been the Jacksons and Madigans, and Holland and Tyler were unlucky with injury (if the latter had declared), but Sexton hasn't seriously worried about his shirt since ROG launched that cross field kick against Scotland 7 years ago.

                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                      Campbell/Ward, a brief tussle between ROG and Humphs, then only really a season or so of Sexton and ROG properly competing.


                      We've been tremendously fortunate in how they've timed themselves, really, but we should be producing more.

                      ROG is 43.

                      Sexton is 34.

                      Ross Byrne is 25. Carbery 24.


                      We're batting at an average of a test fly half every 9/10 years between all four Provinces.


                      I know there's been the Jacksons and Madigans, and Holland and Tyler were unlucky with injury (if the latter had declared), but Sexton hasn't seriously worried about his shirt since ROG launched that cross field kick against Scotland 7 years ago.
                      Absolutely, both in terms of lacking any real challenge, and that we should be producing more, or rather I wish we did. How many world class 10s have, say, Scotland had in that period?

                      in terms of Ward and Campbell, both now mid sixties, between them and ROG it was Humphries, Dean etc, that is no one at that world class level. Those fallow years are a bit like now and the last few years of Sexton, decent players, but nothing most other sides would envy.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



                        It's been a strange position for Ireland for so long. On one level we've been blessed to have two absolutely outstanding, world class test 10's come along one after the other. Since 2002 or so, our first choice 10 has been in the top handful in the world in their position.


                        And yet, at the same time, the two of them are arguably the only true test level 10's we've produced in 20 years.

                        We've had guys like Jackson and Madigan who had their moments, and now we have the "what happens next" with Carbery, Byrne and Carty.

                        But bar a relatively brief overlap between Sexton and ROG, it's been a very long time since there was actually sustained competition or depth.



                        Right now, England would back themselves against us whether they played Ford or Farrell at 10. We'd throw Sexton out at Twickenham if we had to stick him together with tape.
                        Jackson had reached test level before the scandal IMHO. He was streets ahead of Madigan in terms of control and consistency and he looked comfortable in the Irish team. Interested to see how he goes in the GP over the next few seasons.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                          Jackson had reached test level before the scandal IMHO. He was streets ahead of Madigan in terms of control and consistency and he looked comfortable in the Irish team. Interested to see how he goes in the GP over the next few seasons.
                          I agree he was test level, but it think we’ve had talent, as BB identifies, which are in the handful of very best in the world at any particular time. I wish Jackson hadn’t been such a dickh**d, he’d have had a central contract, World Cup, and probably be the man in possession now. Sometimes foolishly brave on the pict, off it, sometimes just foolish.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Munsterboy View Post

                            Jackson had reached test level before the scandal IMHO. He was streets ahead of Madigan in terms of control and consistency and he looked comfortable in the Irish team. Interested to see how he goes in the GP over the next few seasons.

                            Yeah - test level is probably the wrong benchmark. It covers a multitude of sins.


                            Jackson came into the Ireland team in 2013. My view would be that if he'd come straight in at his very best, and done nothing stupid, and been the unchallenged first choice for the last seven years, Ireland would have won nothing.

                            If he'd been the Leinster fly half for that period, they'd have won nothing either.
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


                              Yeah - test level is probably the wrong benchmark. It covers a multitude of sins.


                              Jackson came into the Ireland team in 2013. My view would be that if he'd come straight in at his very best, and done nothing stupid, and been the unchallenged first choice for the last seven years, Ireland would have won nothing.

                              If he'd been the Leinster fly half for that period, they'd have won nothing either.
                              We looking for a James Ryan level player for the 10 jersey.

                              a freak who looks top end at 20, essentially
                              I am the million man.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

                                We looking for a James Ryan level player for the 10 jersey.

                                a freak who looks top end at 20, essentially
                                Sexton was close enough to crashing and burning at 23, I think. He exploded at the point that he replaced Contepomi against us in Dublin.

                                I don't think we need need them to be top end when they're 20 - we've had those. JJ was one. Carbery was one.

                                We need the ones that find the extra gear in their mid 20s.


                                That's the leap that Carbery and Byrne need to make now.

                                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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