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    Arno Botha

    Ultimate Rugby reporting Arno's departure from Munster and return to the Bulls. I wonder what prompted this move, Arno was a great addition to the squad and was heading towards Ireland qualification, following his new hairstyle.
    Thanks Arno and good luck.
    Last edited by Surveyor; 15-May-2020, 12:49.
    'twas wicked yousir!

    #2
    Irish Qualification would have never been an option as he played for the boks two times. That is also probably the reason why we could not extend his stay (once more.)

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Surveyor View Post
      Ultimate Rugby reporting Arno's departure from Munster and return to the Bulls. I wonder what prompted this move, Arno was a great addition to the squad and was heading towards Ireland qualification, following his new hairstyle.
      Thanks Arno and good luck.
      Isnt he capped by South Africa already?

      Really good player but we have a lot of good young back rows coming through, and we’ll established experienced starters already. We have to give academy players more game time. Will be missed though.
      "The PRO12 is our domestic league, it's what you earn your bread and butter from; it's what pays the bills. We need to broaden our emphasis and get an understanding in Irish rugby that the domestic league from now on is most important and that's what qualifies you now for Europe.'' Garrett Fitzgerald, CEO Munster

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Surveyor View Post
        Ultimate Rugby reporting Arno's departure from Munster and return to the Bulls. I wonder what prompted this move, Arno was a great addition to the squad and was heading towards Ireland qualification, following his new hairstyle.
        Thanks Arno and good luck.
        It's already been confirmed by Munster and the Bulls (and is being discussed in the Munster Squad thread) and he was out of contract so was never going to be kept. And as others have said he's a capped Springbok.

        Comment


          #5
          Arno was a good addition to our squad. He threw himself into every match heart and soul - a tad over-enthusiastic sometimes, but I'd always prefer a bit too much intensity rather than too little! You always knew when he came on off the bench that he'd bust a gut to see Munster home safely. Best of luck to Arno on his return home.

          Comment


            #6
            Am glad for him- gave us very good and very timely service - I was a bit disappointed, as were others on here when he was recruited first, but people clearly knew better. Our very promising back rows weren’t quite there and his presence gave them that extra time to come through- delighted for him, and especially for the opportunity it opens up for JOS, Hodnett etc. Very good bit of recruitment and equally good bit of offloading.

            Comment


              #7
              All the best Arno. Always gave everything in the Munster jersey, and provided massive energy whenever he came off the bench or when starting
              "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

              Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

              Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
                Am glad for him- gave us very good and very timely service - I was a bit disappointed, as were others on here when he was recruited first, but people clearly knew better. Our very promising back rows weren’t quite there and his presence gave them that extra time to come through- delighted for him, and especially for the opportunity it opens up for JOS, Hodnett etc. Very good bit of recruitment and equally good bit of offloading.
                Arno Botha is a very good rugby player and never really had a bad game for Munster. I think from the offset, we knew that this would be the case, as he is a Springbok. The question detractors of the signing had, myself included, was whether he was going to increase Munster’s chances of lifting silverware and whether he was the best use of a NIQ slot, considering the relative lack of options we had in other positions.

                There’s an argument to be made that he improved Munster’s chance of winning silverware by playing in the pro14 when the internationals were away. I can understand this argument, but for me, when there are only 3/4 NIQ slots, a NIQ player should really improve the starting the XV or at least, be consistently pushing for a start.

                I don’t think there is any real argument to be made that a backup number 8 was needed more than a tighthead or lock. The only viable “champions-cup level” options we had at tighthead were Stephen Archer and John Ryan, when he was signed. Holland, Kleyn and Beirne were the only trusted locks. In comparison, we had Stander, O’Donnell and O’Donoghue who all had plenty of experience of playing in the champions cup and could play 8. I would disagree with the assessment that Coombes wasn’t up to the level at the time. For me, he was just as ready then as Ryan Baird is now for Leinster. Coombes was a lot more developed, physically (1.93m - 113kg ), than Baird is now (1.98 m - 107kg).

                To me, this signing and the Jed Holloway signing were two of the more pointless signings in Munster’s recent history. They didn’t massively improve Munster’s chances of winning silverware and unfortunately ended up taking away game time from up and coming Munster youngsters, in periods where more game time really should have been available. Again, nothing against Botha, who is a brilliant signing for the Bulls. Wish him the best of luck and I think he has every chance of playing for the Springboks again. From a Munster point of view, I think the last few signings have made much more sense.
                Last edited by Mumhain; 15-May-2020, 22:50.

                Comment


                  #9
                  The right kind of NIE signing. High quality player who came in and gave it a good lash for a couple of years while we developed younger players coming through. He goes away with his reputation enhanced, our gratitude and respect, and hopefully a good few fond memories of his time here. Fine player and good pro. Best of luck Arno!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Mumhain View Post

                    Arno Botha is a very good rugby player and never really had a bad game for Munster. I think from the offset, we knew that this would be the case, as he is a Springbok. The question detractors of the signing had, myself included, was whether he was going to increase Munster’s chances of lifting silverware and whether he was the best use of a NIQ slot, considering the relative lack of options we had in other positions.

                    There’s an argument to be made that he improved Munster’s chance of winning silverware by playing in the pro14 when the internationals were away. I can understand this argument, but for me, when there are only 3/4 NIQ slots, a NIQ player should really improve the starting the XV or at least, be consistently pushing for a start.

                    I don’t think there is any real argument to be made that a backup number 8 was needed more than a tighthead or lock. The only viable “champions-cup level” options we had at tighthead were Stephen Archer and John Ryan, when he was signed. Holland, Kleyn and Beirne were the only trusted locks. In comparison, we had Stander, O’Donnell and O’Donoghue who all had plenty of experience of playing in the champions cup and could play 8. I would disagree with the assessment that Coombes wasn’t up to the level at the time. For me, he was just as ready then as Ryan Baird is now for Leinster. Coombes was a lot more developed, physically (1.93m - 113kg ), than Baird is now (1.98 m - 107kg).

                    To me, this signing and the Jed Holloway signing were two of the more pointless signings in Munster’s recent history. They didn’t massively improve Munster’s chances of winning silverware and unfortunately ended up taking away game time from up and coming Munster youngsters, in periods where more game time really should have been available. Again, nothing against Botha, who is a brilliant signing for the Bulls. Wish him the best of luck and I think he has every chance of playing for the Springboks again. From a Munster point of view, I think the last few signings have made much more sense.
                    I agree with you about the ‘go forward’ we should expect from Snyman etc, compared with a signing like Botha. The Holloway signing was cover for a situation which didn’t arise, looks pointless in hindsight, but sensible management. While Coombes is a fine young player now it would have been quite a weight to put in his shoulders to ask him to do the work Arno did two years ago.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                      I agree with you about the ‘go forward’ we should expect from Snyman etc, compared with a signing like Botha. The Holloway signing was cover for a situation which didn’t arise, looks pointless in hindsight, but sensible management. While Coombes is a fine young player now it would have been quite a weight to put in his shoulders to ask him to do the work Arno did two years ago.
                      We'll have to agree to disagree on the Holloway/Botha signings. Unless a player improves Munster's starting first XV, I don't think it's sensible management to recruit NIQ guys in positions where we have an abundance of young talent coming through. For me, it's short-sighted and shows a lack of trust in academy structures. While a lot of other teams were giving young back-rowers (Boyle at Connacht, Doris/Deegan/Baird at Leinster etc.) game time, we were giving a South African international game time instead of our potential future internationals.

                      Gavin Coombes has started just one match this year. In my opinion, what Coombes needed two years ago, is the same thing he needs now: game time. Coombes wouldn't have been doing the work Botha did alone. He would have had two fairly experienced back-rowers with him in O'Donnell and O'Donoghue, who had plenty of experience playing 8. This year we have Hodnett and O'Sullivan as well, who could have played 8.
                      Last edited by Mumhain; 16-May-2020, 18:49.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        O'Donoghue was out injured from May 2018 to Feb 2019. Botha was badly needed during that spell while the internationals were unavailable.
                        When things go wrong, blame McGahan

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Best of luck to him, disappointing to see him go but not surprising. He was an excellent signing and he did really well for us. He did exactly what it says on the tin for a NIQ player. He filled a spot that was badly needed at the time between injuries/unavailable international players, while the younger players weren’t ready to take that step up. He was real quality and experience that we needed. I think between the signings that we’ve made and the young players now available in the back row, it is no surprise he’s moved on, best of luck to him.
                          The Maul is Back!! LONG LIVE THE MAUL!!

                          Stringer is bigger even than his own immense shadow. Pound for pound, he is the best tackler in the world. If you put him into bag of cats he\'d come out without a scratch. He was hit very late for Murphy\'s try. And when he got up, as we knew he would, the crowd cried his name as if he had just fixed the economy.Billy Keane-After Munster\'s famous loss to the AB\'s.

                          The Bull-Truly irreplaceable, a mountain of a man. 100 caps!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Mumhain View Post

                            We'll have to agree to disagree on the Holloway/Botha signings. Unless the player improves Munster's starting XV, I don't think it's sensible management to recruit NIQ guys in positions where we have an abundance of young talent coming through. For me, it's short-sighted and shows a lack of trust in academy structures. While a lot of other teams were giving young back-rowers (Boyle at Connacht, Doris/Deegan/Baird at Leinster etc.) game time, we were giving a South African international game time instead of our potential future internationals.

                            Gavin Coombes has started just one match this year. In my opinion, what Coombes needed two years ago, is the same thing he needs now: game time. Coombes wouldn't have been doing the work Botha did alone. He would have had two fairly experienced back-rowers with him in O'Donnell and O'Donoghue, who had plenty of experience playing 8. This year we have Hodnett and O'Sullivan as well, who could have played 8.
                            Fair points- I think it reflects a bit of risk- aversiveness, after all, filling a problem with a capped Bok must have seemed a safer choice than relying on young tyros, and besides he might have really added quality to the squad - the Jed thing was sheer short term pragmatism, and he didn’t play much. I realise that people could see that as an opportunity, rather than a need for a short term solution, but that doesn’t seem to be how we look at it. Generally I think we’ve been good at giving guys a taste of the first team, but not an extended run. Whether that is because of a desperate need to get results- after all we haven’t won anything for ages, but then that very obviously hasn’t worked. Im not sure what Gallagher has to offer above what we have, but our new SA recruits certainly do.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              He filled the role they asked of him, was always very physical with his ball carrying and tackling, sad to see him depart, but the younger back row guys are now ready to make the next step, so he had to be moved. Hope to see him make the Bok squad in the near future.

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