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    Muster State of Play questions

    Munsterrugby.ie are asking for questions from fans for their next state of play Q&A. Mine was to ask for confirmation that the De Allende and Snyman signings are rock solid despite the Covid-19 crisis i.e. is the funding in place?

    https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/05/...play-may-2020/

    #2
    Originally posted by Crazyemerald View Post
    Munsterrugby.ie are asking for questions from fans for their next state of play Q&A. Mine was to ask for confirmation that the De Allende and Snyman signings are rock solid despite the Covid-19 crisis i.e. is the funding in place?

    https://www.munsterrugby.ie/2020/05/...play-may-2020/
    Dont waste your question

    Comment


      #3
      I wonder whether a good question would be ... why do Leinster seem to be able to bring young players through faster, and what are we doing about it?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
        I wonder whether a good question would be ... why do Leinster seem to be able to bring young players through faster, and what are we doing about it?
        Think that might consume pages of answers. To be fair, most of Europe could pose the same question of their own team. We just happen to be neighbours and feeling the pain a little more as a result

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
          I wonder whether a good question would be ... why do Leinster seem to be able to bring young players through faster, and what are we doing about it?
          It's simple really - if you have 9 or 10 academy like structures that are suitably resourced, they provide a large talent pipeline for you to exploit once they are finished in those structures. Once you have a large talent pipeline, quite easy for them to bring the players through.
          Its deja vu all over again!!!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Crescent boy 2 View Post

            It's simple really - if you have 9 or 10 academy like structures that are suitably resourced, they provide a large talent pipeline for you to exploit once they are finished in those structures. Once you have a large talent pipeline, quite easy for them to bring the players through.
            Doesn’t answer the ‘what are we doing about it?’ Part

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
              I wonder whether a good question would be ... why do Leinster seem to be able to bring young players through faster, and what are we doing about it?
              b/c their schools produce players that are just about pro14 ready when they get selected for the Leinster academy. Francis talks a ton of absolute garbage, but on one podcast with Luke Fitz, he talked about the difference between when he played at that age and what his nephew is going thru now at schools level. Night and day. The big rugby schools in Leinster seem to be one step below professional outfits in how they treat their players coming through in terms of training, video analysis, nutrition, physio care, etc. Everything is geared towards producing these kids as rugby players from a young age. When they get to Leinster's academy, it isn't that much different to what they have dealt with for the past few years of their lives. These guys have been marked as the next generation early on and every effort has been expended to make sure they are fulfilling their potential by the time they hit their early 20s. Until Munster have a bunch of schools with the same sort of setup, they will lag behind in terms of youth production.

              Whether that is simply a function of population and economics remains to be seen, but at the moment it seems that the Leinster schools are pumping out more pro ready talent than Leinster can handle. Players will fall thru the cracks. Look at Beirne and Conway; think Leinster wouldn't want them in their squad ? Same goes for Cooney, he couldn't get game time, now he's streets ahead of McGrath or Gibson-Park. They're seeing a glut of talent, but they can't keep it all. At 10, Cullen is seemingly addicted to Sexton despite his age and the fact that he has the two Byrnes and Frawley who have all shown that they can play well. At some point, two of them will leave, one thru retirement and one b/c he feels he can get more time and money elsewhere. In the back row there is a dilemma b/c Conan, Deegan Doris, Connors, and Ruddock, VDF and Leavy have all shown they can play at pro14 and HC level, and a few of them won't be content to be second choice. It is what it is, Leinster have the largest population, they're going to have the most rugby players available to them.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                Doesn’t answer the ‘what are we doing about it?’ Part
                well we wont ever get near having same number of schools as them. Leinster also doing very well worth number of club youths players progressing.
                we need to focus a lot more on club youths rugby with extra attention on under 16 and 18.5 leagues. Assess beat club players after their under 14 seasons and have them getting extra training in regional set ups. Have a regional series at under 16 and then 18 levels. After under 16 series you pick a provincial squad and beat across province train together
                get a second provincial clubs select into schools cup.
                then have more kids playing high level of rugby together to help assess players from smaller clubs with talent to go far who might'nt be seen through their club alone

                Do more work at under 20s and2have more clubs fielding beyond the city clubs to keep eye on late bloomers as well as help adult game.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                  Doesn’t answer the ‘what are we doing about it?’ Part
                  I think this is a very valid question. Everybody knows Leinster have more resources and playing numbers, but we can't just take the defeatist attitude adopted by some Welsh provinces/journalists. I'm sure the Munster hierarchy aren't. As highlighted by ormond, getting a provincial club select team into the schools cup was a really good idea, so it would be nice to know what other future ideas/plans they have.

                  Leinster's club game and development strategies are great, but they aren't perfect. Despite improvements to their club game, there are still relatively few Leinster youngsters coming from Ballymun or Ballyfermot. Leinster's academy intake is still dominated by a select few private schools. As other posters have pointed out, it's very unlikely that Munster's private school will ever be able to produce the same amount of players as Leinster's private schools. The key is the club game and incentivizing as many young kids, from non-traditional rugby backgrounds, as possible.

                  A regional series at under 16 and 18 levels sounds good. I think it could be a good idea to play some of these regional matches as warm-up matches for Munster's pro14/Champions cup matches. Stream these matches on youtube, and try to get the likes of TG4/EIR to broadcast the matches, if possible. This could have the benefit of incentivizing more kids, from non-traditional backgrounds, while at the same time allowing Munster scouts gain an insight into how the players perform under pressure ( similar to the pressure of Leinster/Munster school's cup.)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Agree with Mumhain and OL, would much prefer we find a way, to address this rather than accept it as fate- realistically- a schools based solution isn’t feasible for us in any foreseeable time (although that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be striving to get more out of schools), and this the solution must be in clubs / regions. The only thing you can do when you don’t have ‘natural’ advantages is to work harder and smarter.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Mumhain View Post

                      I think this is a very valid question. Everybody knows Leinster have more resources and playing numbers, but we can't just take the defeatist attitude adopted by some Welsh provinces/journalists. I'm sure the Munster hierarchy aren't. As highlighted by ormond, getting a provincial club select team into the schools cup was a really good idea, so it would be nice to know what other future ideas/plans they have.

                      Leinster's club game and development strategies are great, but they aren't perfect. Despite improvements to their club game, there are still relatively few Leinster youngsters coming from Ballymun or Ballyfermot. Leinster's academy intake is still dominated by a select few private schools. As other posters have pointed out, it's very unlikely that Munster's private school will ever be able to produce the same amount of players as Leinster's private schools. The key is the club game and incentivizing as many young kids, from non-traditional rugby backgrounds, as possible.

                      A regional series at under 16 and 18 levels sounds good. I think it could be a good idea to play some of these regional matches as warm-up matches for Munster's pro14/Champions cup matches. Stream these matches on youtube, and try to get the likes of TG4/EIR to broadcast the matches, if possible. This could have the benefit of incentivizing more kids, from non-traditional backgrounds, while at the same time allowing Munster scouts gain an insight into how the players perform under pressure ( similar to the pressure of Leinster/Munster school's cup.)
                      leinster do have guys working as development officers in the Ballymuns etc so are working hard.
                      James Lowe is affiliated with clondalkin as he didnt want to affiliate with one of the traditional clubs in the city. And he often goes out to club award days etc.
                      Wish more could do more like that
                      Of course the leinster set up will still be dominated by the couple of schools and it really is just a small number but they simply have way more than us to bulk out the numbers coming from the big 2/3 schools.
                      There has been a regional series to help select Munster youths squad at under 16/17 but doesnt seem to be promoted like it was a few years back. I dont necessarily think the games need to be streamed and I would rather an overhaul of the traditional north, east, south and west regions to 4 more equal in terms of number of clubs while still maintaining the existing city cups etc

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                        There has been a regional series to help select Munster youths squad at under 16/17 but doesnt seem to be promoted like it was a few years back. I dont necessarily think the games need to be streamed and I would rather an overhaul of the traditional north, east, south and west regions to 4 more equal in terms of number of clubs while still maintaining the existing city cups etc
                        Some very pertinent points. City cup seems to be working well in Limerick, but I'm sure you have more of an insight into it than me. From a Cork perspective, it was interesting to see the merger of Douglas and Carrigaline at underage competitions. Especially, considering that Douglas has around 27,000 people and Carrigaline 16,000. Obviously it make sense from a logistical point of view, as the Douglas and Carrigaline training bases are so close together and both appeared to be struggling for numbers at those age grades. If it means a higher concentration of good coaching for young lads, than it can only be good.


                        Don't think it has to be an either/or situation with regards to streaming some underage regional matches or overhauling the regional teams. If they were to play some of these matches as warm-up matches to the Munster seniors, you'd assume that the cameras would already be in place from the seniors, so it wouldn't be massive extra work. In the GAA, there is massive hype around the minor matches and they often end up overshadowing the senior event itself. The minor matches usually end up being a positive experiences for all involved and encourage the kids to keep with the sport.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Mumhain View Post

                          Some very pertinent points. City cup seems to be working well in Limerick, but I'm sure you have more of an insight into it than me. From a Cork perspective, it was interesting to see the merger of Douglas and Carrigaline at underage competitions. Especially, considering that Douglas has around 27,000 people and Carrigaline 16,000. Obviously it make sense from a logistical point of view, as the Douglas and Carrigaline training bases are so close together and both appeared to be struggling for numbers at those age grades. If it means a higher concentration of good coaching for young lads, than it can only be good.


                          Don't think it has to be an either/or situation with regards to streaming some underage regional matches or overhauling the regional teams. If they were to play some of these matches as warm-up matches to the Munster seniors, you'd assume that the cameras would already be in place from the seniors, so it wouldn't be massive extra work. In the GAA, there is massive hype around the minor matches and they often end up overshadowing the senior event itself. The minor matches usually end up being a positive experiences for all involved and encourage the kids to keep with the sport.
                          Another advantage of having these games before some senior matches would be that where a full crowd would be anticipated- team followers would rock up, you’d imagine, to see their lads play- this swelling the crowd.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                            Another advantage of having these games before some senior matches would be that where a full crowd would be anticipated- team followers would rock up, you’d imagine, to see their lads play- this swelling the crowd.
                            Munster fans aren't interested in anything but the 1st team.

                            I have been to Munster As where only 100 attend.Even though thousands have free entrance to the game.

                            Last edited by Christian_Cullen15; 9-May-2020, 16:55.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Mumhain View Post

                              Some very pertinent points. City cup seems to be working well in Limerick, but I'm sure you have more of an insight into it than me. From a Cork perspective, it was interesting to see the merger of Douglas and Carrigaline at underage competitions. Especially, considering that Douglas has around 27,000 people and Carrigaline 16,000. Obviously it make sense from a logistical point of view, as the Douglas and Carrigaline training bases are so close together and both appeared to be struggling for numbers at those age grades. If it means a higher concentration of good coaching for young lads, than it can only be good.


                              Don't think it has to be an either/or situation with regards to streaming some underage regional matches or overhauling the regional teams. If they were to play some of these matches as warm-up matches to the Munster seniors, you'd assume that the cameras would already be in place from the seniors, so it wouldn't be massive extra work. In the GAA, there is massive hype around the minor matches and they often end up overshadowing the senior event itself. The minor matches usually end up being a positive experiences for all involved and encourage the kids to keep with the sport.
                              how long is it since there has been club with real active interest in driving rugby in the areas around Douglas carrigaline. Yes these are areas with huge populations and probably deserve dedicated development officers in the schools there.
                              I played down in carrigaline CS while in school. We were a relativ2ly small school but had 5/6 guys playing a lot of club rugby and had 2/3 who were involved in regional squads etc but barely had 15 players while carrigaline had loads.
                              I dont think playing these games before pro games actually does much. I would rather if any games are to be tied to pro games use some of the Munster u16/18 club finals. And get pros actively involved in finals stages of the various tiered cups.
                              streaming regional games isnt needed. Provinces dont really want to stream these games. Put up short highlights online days after maybe but no need or enough interest to stream the game

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