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HEC R6. Munster v Ospreys, Thomond Park. Sun 19th Jan @ 13:00. BT Sport

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    #46
    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    So would we seed 8th even in this mathematics?

    Away to Leinster in a quarter final?
    We'd be better off not qualifying at all
    Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
    Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

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      #47
      Originally posted by Miguel Sanchez View Post

      I really don't know. That's the problem. I've nothing against innovation and progression in selection but surely it's up to the younger lads to demand their place based on their results and training rather than wait for a dead rubber game to just throw them in?

      p.s. We put out a young callow side against Edinburgh in the league and lost. Is that a learn or valuable experience or just poor planning?
      Yeah, perfect example there. That side needed a Holland and one or two senior heads to steer the ship. Whether JVG's planning or a gamble that Edinburgh wouldn't take the open invite, it's poor either way against a conference rival.

      And agreed, just because guys are starved for gametime it doesn't make them good. But one thing Leinster have in spades is squad depth and competition for places. Conan's done nothing wrong and might struggle to get back in with Deegan and Doris tearing it up. We don't have those resources or player pool, which is why for me we're arguably more pressed to work with what we have.

      When it comes to Europe though, established lads will always get the 50/50 nod in a must win game, same as RWC. Now we've lost that game and aren't within an asses roar of silverware, there's a chance to widen our options. Look at JJ. Wasn't sure of his position last season, injuries happened and now he's the one we were praying stayed fit. Keep the team strong, go for the bonus but lets see if some of these other lads can take the step up.

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        #48
        Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post
        van Graan would be eaten alive by the very press and fans who are currently calling for him to play the young lads.
        From what I've seen, it's the opposite. The majority of fans that want opportunities for the inexperienced players, have no issues with defeats or poor performances from young players. Speaking for myself, the only way I see us closing the gap on the top 2/3 teams is to develop more players and take risks. I'm as guilty as anybody for this, but the reality is, adding one/two players (see Nadolo suggestion) a year isn't going to close the gap. We need 4/5 guys coming through a year, adding genuine competition, and with our budget, the only way this is going to happen is with our academy products.

        In past years, we simply haven't had the quality in the academy to do this. Now we do, so it's good to see Casey, Healy, Knox, O'Sullivan and Coombes getting opportunities in the match day squads. We'll be in a good place if the likes of Thomas Ahern, James French, Jake Flannery, Sean French and John Hodnett make similar breakthroughs, next season.





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          #49
          Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
          Surely top spot in the Pro14 group with an easier draw next year and game time in the younger players is more valuable than scraping in as the 8th seed?

          Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
          Nice try IJWT but you know that while Leinster might say they don't fear anyone, they won't want to play Munster as the 'away' side.
          "Fineen Wycherley was everywhere. When I watched this video back late on Saturday night I half expected to look up from my laptop to find him in my kitchen ' TRK Nov 3rd 2019 following Cardiff v Munster

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            #50
            Originally posted by Mumhain View Post
            From what I've seen, it's the opposite. The majority of fans that want opportunities for the inexperienced players, have no issues with defeats or poor performances from young players. Speaking for myself, the only way I see us closing the gap on the top 2/3 teams is to develop more players and take risks. I'm as guilty as anybody for this, but the reality is, adding one/two players (see Nadolo suggestion) a year isn't going to close the gap. We need 4/5 guys coming through a year, adding genuine competition, and with our budget, the only way this is going to happen is with our academy products.

            In past years, we simply haven't had the quality in the academy to do this. Now we do, so it's good to see Casey, Healy, Knox, O'Sullivan and Coombes getting opportunities in the match day squads. We'll be in a good place if the likes of Thomas Ahern, James French, Jake Flannery, Sean French and John Hodnett make similar breakthroughs, next season.




            There was a great crop of academy players last year better than Leinsters even but we need to be producing them every year to get to where we want to be.
            I would have high hopes for a lot of those young guys and if they come through we’ll be ok,

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              #51
              Originally posted by POPEYE View Post
              There was a great crop of academy players last year better than Leinsters even but we need to be producing them every year to get to where we want to be.
              I would have high hopes for a lot of those young guys and if they come through we’ll be ok,
              I'm inclined to agree. Despite all this talk of inferior development pathways, some of which I agree with, there hasn't been a huge chasm in quality of player of coming into the respective academies, over the last 2/3 years.

              Going back to the game against Ospreys, I don't think Munster have to be anywhere full-strength to beat this Ospreys team. Even if Munster did manage to lose to Ospreys and miss out on qualification, I don't think it would have any real effect on Munster going forward. If Munster do qualify they will be in have bottom-half of the draw and have to play three teams, away from home, who all probably have stronger squads than Munster. Winning the HC with that seeding, would be difficult for even great Munster teams.

              I think the following team would have more than enough quality to win with a BP, while also giving the likes of Casey a positive european match-day experience:
              1. Killer, 2. Scannell, 3. Knox, 4. Holland, 5. Wyncherly (O'Shea, if Wyncherley injured), 6. Coombes, 7. O'Mahony, 8. O'Sullivan, 9. Casey, 10. Hanrahan, 11. Earls, 12. Dan Goggin, 13. Chris Farrell , 14. Conway, 15. Daly

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                #52
                He's going to run out the best team he can in front of a large crowd. He has to. That's just the reality of it all. The results they need aren't all that crazy when you think about it. Racing with a full strength side could do a job on a Saracens team who have been held down recently in terms of points scored by any good team they've faced. 15 against Munster, 7 against Exeter. Racing are gunning for a top 2 seed and a home semifinal. They want to win this thing badly and are going to go balls to the wall in order to get that seeding.

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                  #53
                  Lads, Munster were third seeds last year, got the French Champions and the English Runners up, neither of whom had any recent European form and qualified, albeit for an away QF.

                  This year, they were second seeds, got the English Champions and the fifth-ranked French team. Unfortunately both have excellent European form with the results we have seen.

                  Getting to the PRO 14 final
                  • doesn't guarantee a team will be a top seed
                  • doesn't quarantee an easy draw.

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                    #54
                    Originally posted by Mumhain View Post
                    From what I've seen, it's the opposite. The majority of fans that want opportunities for the inexperienced players, have no issues with defeats or poor performances from young players. Speaking for myself, the only way I see us closing the gap on the top 2/3 teams is to develop more players and take risks.
                    JVG is still getting **** on here about throwing the young lads in against Edinburgh & losing. He did the same against Connacht & won which isnt mentioned half as often. .

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                      #55
                      Originally posted by mickiemcfist View Post

                      JVG is still getting **** on here about throwing the young lads in against Edinburgh & losing. He did the same against Connacht & won which isnt mentioned half as often. .
                      Ah here, Killer, Archer, Kleyn, Holland, Stander, JJ and Farrell all started, nearly half the team. It's not the same.

                      We'd two of Sunday's XV in Cork plus the likes of DOS and Wootton who, to be brutally honest, played themselves out of a contract.

                      That Connacht mix and match would go well in future league games though, got the balance spot on.

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                        #56
                        Given the need to name the team before we know other results, I think his only option is to pick close to the same squad. If other results go against us he can introduce a lot of the subs relatively early (say half time).

                        Like it or not, missing out on a 1/4 final because he picked a weakened team and failed to get a BP would potentially lose him his job, no matter how much we might want to build for the future.

                        Ultimately, giving Casey and co a start in this one game is not going to make a huge difference to their development. They need to be playing regularly for the rest of the season.

                        I’d like to see Knox, Casey, Fineen, JOS and Daly starting about 50% of the remaining fixtures. A few other things should be tried too, such as playing Farrell at 12 with Goggin at 13, Daly getting some time at 13, POM playing more at 7, and Coombes playing at lock.

                        Hopefully see more of Healy and Hodnet too.

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                          #57
                          Originally posted by mickiemcfist View Post

                          JVG is still getting **** on here about throwing the young lads in against Edinburgh & losing. He did the same against Connacht & won which isnt mentioned half as often. .
                          I'm not disputing that he is/will get ****, I'm refuting the straw man that the fans - who want inexperienced players featuring more often - only want these inexperienced players played, if Munster win. There have been numerous posts on here that have argued that blooding young players is just as, if not more important, than winning this season. In the aftermath of the Ulster game, the majority of people going after Van Graan's neck, were the people that never wanted young players selected in the first place. Not accusing overthehillprop of making this argument, his point was more specific to Ospreys match.

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                            #58
                            Originally posted by ustix View Post

                            Do you say 'Jan' or 'Yan'?
                            It’s a Dutch name so the ‘correct’ pronunciation would be something along the lines of “Yawn”, but pronounce it however you like

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                              #59
                              Originally posted by Jan Sanono View Post

                              It’s a Dutch name so the ‘correct’ pronunciation would be something along the lines of “Yawn”, but pronounce it however you like
                              Easy to pronounce - as in Jan Molby
                              "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
                              Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

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                                #60
                                Originally posted by Amar56 View Post

                                Ah here, Killer, Archer, Kleyn, Holland, Stander, JJ and Farrell all started, nearly half the team. It's not the same.

                                We'd two of Sunday's XV in Cork plus the likes of DOS and Wootton who, to be brutally honest, played themselves out of a contract.

                                That Connacht mix and match would go well in future league games though, got the balance spot on.
                                Exactly. A world of difference to the piss take selection against Edinburgh.

                                We have the opportunity now to field balanced sides for the rest of the Pro 14 campaign. A lot of guys are clearly up to it, and should be given proper gamtime alongside our senior players. Take an opportunity to put JOS out alongside CJ and Pete, with Coombes in front alongide JK, and Knox alongside Scannell and Killer. Start Healy with Murray, Casey in between Scannell and JJ/Tyler. Field strong sides buffered with some key young players that we've earmarked to be the core of the side in five years time. Look at the impact playing in a strong side in a proper interpro derby had on Fineen. That's how you effectively blood players.

                                "There are probably more annoying things than being hectored about African development by a wealthy Irish rock star in a cowboy hat, but I can't think of one at the moment"

                                Paul Theroux

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