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HEC R5. Racing vs. Munster. Paris. TV Coverage BT Sport. Sunday 12th Jan @3.15pm

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    Our kingdom for a breakdown/contact skills coach.

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      Im trying to gauge where we are compared to other seasons we failed to make the qtrs. Not many times like this to be fair. 2011.2015 and 2016.

      2011. I always thought we were unlucky. 3 away loses killed us. But we still had poc rog. Fla. Wally.dougie Leamy. Earls d Ryan. We also had pom zebo Murray to break in. It felt like a blip but we had mcgahan in charge and a season later he was gone.

      2015. Started so well. Away win at sale. Beat sarries. Axl first season. Surprise loss to clermont at home and blown away at sarries. It was definitely a worse feeling than 2011

      2016. Back to back losses to tigers and probably the worst Heineken performance at home v tigers. This was a new low and probably the reason a DOR was recruited. Jan 2016 was a dark time.

      Comment


        Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
        It's hard to know what to make of us right now. We were really good in patches today, and we landed them on their arse a few times. Scrum was also excellent. So the forward aggression was there, which is what you want to see.

        For all the abuse that Murray gets, it was clearly a coaching tactic to box kick. He doesn't get to decide tactics. You've haven thought though after the first half that we would stop kicking away possession when clearly that tactic wasn't working.

        The replacement situation was really odd as well - some players were out in their feet at 65 mins but it took another 10 mins to sub them? Again, that's poor man management.

        Assuming we go out next week, I'd prefer if we used the rest of the season to give the younger lads a run out and to sharpen up our defense and attack. We need to start somewhere as players like POM, CJ and Murray aren't going to be around forever.

        Overall pretty disappointed but we left it on the pitch, and you can't ask much more than that I suppose.
        Agree with all of that - and would add that the abuse Murray gets is wide of the mark, I thought he played very well today, but I’d have liked to see some breaks back in his game (as long as there’s support on hand). Giving the likes of JOS, Coombes, Healy, Casey, Daly and others game time isn’t just about preparing for when some current players are no longer around- we need options the bench that give us real alternatives and are as good as those starting. That’s what top teams have. Although we didn’t see them- maybe because until 10 out we were within a score- Casey and Daly would have given Racing something else to think about. We also need to look at other options in mid field, while we are more fluid, we have little or no penetration in the centre, and the lack of it makes our two outstanding wings easier to deal with.

        I think we are better than our recent results- if belief is lacking here, I wonder whether too many players who started today also lack the belief that they can win- it has been a dismal last six months for many of them.

        Comment


          After the Ospreys game, our next match is Feb 14th and during the 6 nations we play the Kings(H), Zebre(A), Scarlets (H) and Benetton (A) on Mar 21st. We have to use the break and those games to work with the younger players and whoever doesn't get into the Ireland squad almost as a pre-season and re-enforce some of Larkham's strategies (that were working well early in the season) and work on breakdown. We have to trust players like Healy, Casey, Daly, Fineen, Jack O'Sullivan, the Coombes cousins and Knox etc with starting roles (backed up by a strong bench). We don't want to lose those games but we need to invest in our younger players to build squad depth for next season and beyond.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Crazyemerald View Post
            After the Ospreys game, our next match is Feb 14th and during the 6 nations we play the Kings(H), Zebre(A), Scarlets (H) and Benetton (A) on Mar 21st. We have to use the break and those games to work with the younger players and whoever doesn't get into the Ireland squad almost as a pre-season and re-enforce some of Larkham's strategies (that were working well early in the season) and work on breakdown. We have to trust players like Healy, Casey, Daly, Fineen, Jack O'Sullivan, the Coombes cousins and Knox etc with starting roles (backed up by a strong bench). We don't want to lose those games but we need to invest in our younger players to build squad depth for next season and beyond.
            while I agree that we should do that the reality is that jvg doesn’t care about munsters long term development or blooding players. He is a coach and picks the team week to week and he will pick the best or experienced team he can field to win every match as it comes.

            of our squad we will definitely lose killer. Scannell. Cj. Murray. Earls. Conway. Pom to Ireland. We might lose Ryan. Farrell kleyn.



            Comment


              Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

              Agree with all of that - and would add that the abuse Murray gets is wide of the mark, I thought he played very well today, but I’d have liked to see some breaks back in his game (as long as there’s support on hand). Giving the likes of JOS, Coombes, Healy, Casey, Daly and others game time isn’t just about preparing for when some current players are no longer around- we need options the bench that give us real alternatives and are as good as those starting. That’s what top teams have. Although we didn’t see them- maybe because until 10 out we were within a score- Casey and Daly would have given Racing something else to think about. We also need to look at other options in mid field, while we are more fluid, we have little or no penetration in the centre, and the lack of it makes our two outstanding wings easier to deal with.

              I think we are better than our recent results- if belief is lacking here, I wonder whether too many players who started today also lack the belief that they can win- it has been a dismal last six months for many of them.
              Sorry I should have been a bit clearer - both with an eye to the future and to give younger lads game time we should be playing Casey, Daly, JOS etc.

              Fatigue must also come into play. Some of the senior lads like POM, CJ and Keith must be a bit tired of it all by now. There are only so many times you can go to the well before it runs dry. They've probably had what 4 weeks off in 1.5 years? That's insane, especially given the physicality of the game these days. They are going to come off this into the Ireland set up as well for the next few months.
              ​​​​​



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              Comment


                Originally posted by BigLad View Post

                while I agree that we should do that the reality is that jvg doesn’t care about munsters long term development or blooding players. He is a coach and picks the team week to week and he will pick the best or experienced team he can field to win every match as it comes.

                of our squad we will definitely lose killer. Scannell. Cj. Murray. Earls. Conway. Pom to Ireland. We might lose Ryan. Farrell kleyn.


                That’s a bit unfair on Jvg I think, he has brought in several younger players this year, and they’ve had some (albeit not enough) game time, when the fixtures allowed (ok the Edinburgh selection may have been a risk too far, but there weren’t opportunities after that). Daly and Casey on the bench today showed, I think, what he wants to do, and I think we’ll see more of It very he next few weeks.

                Comment


                  Didn't see the game, listened to Mick and Donal on the radio.

                  Whenever we get to the ejection I seem to think of the 2013 final. Toulon and Clermont in Dublin.

                  Tis a money sport now and has been for years. Saracens got injuries and brought Schalk Burger and Will Skelton on the books as joker's.

                  We are never, ever, going to compete with the wallet, it's just not going to happen.

                  The teams we keep suffering to are moneymade, and, sickeningly, our closest and fiercest rival have become the rugby version of barcelona FC.

                  I can't see Munster winning Europe again, the gap between the wealth and the rest will only widen in years to come.
                  I am the million man.

                  Comment


                    I agree that some of the older lads need to be used only after 60mins from here on in, the up and coming talent learn a good deal more from starting a game and trying to implement a game plan than coming in late and reacting to what has already happened. Coombes to start in the second row and Wych at 6.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Old Dog View Post

                      Typical! I turn up to offer my deepest commiserations and try to cheer ye all up, only for a ill-natured yahoo from Outer Mongolia to throw a hissy fit!

                      Oh and, just for the record, I "turned up" here only a couple of weeks ago following Leinster's enjoyable win in Limerick, but the level of banter was so mediocre that I left immediately.
                      Welcome back
                      You've been missed
                      Life is good

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                        We are never, ever, going to compete with the wallet, it's just not going to happen.

                        The teams we keep suffering to are moneymade, and, sickeningly, our closest and fiercest rival have become the rugby version of barcelona FC.

                        I can't see Munster winning Europe again, the gap between the wealth and the rest will only widen in years to come.
                        Come on Cowboy. We’ve had worse days. But we remain supporters of one of the most remarkable and enduring rugby clubs.

                        It was never easy for us the first time in 2006, and if anything it’s at least twice as difficult now.

                        You could be right, but you are possibly wrong too.

                        Let’s keep the faith. And you’ll feel better in the morning.
                        "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
                        Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

                        Comment


                          Don't agree that Murray played especially well. His boxkicking is n longer as robotically consistent as it used to be. There were too many today which went too far to be contestable. But that' s a relatively minor point. More concerning for me is that he really seems to be struggling to put pace on the ball. His passing far too often now involves stooping to pick, then taking at least one step while he winds up the pass and then releasing. And this is when he has his mind made up which pass he's throwing before he gets to the ruck AND has been given quick ball. Aggressive defenders who know full well he doesn't really carry, are pouring into our midfield and they're pouring onto our first receiver because it's clear as day which side the ball is going to be shipped to.

                          I know that the tv angles often capture a view which is too tight and often we're maybe not seeing the bigger picture, with players outside perhaps being slow to realign and offer themselves as willing urgent receiving options, but it's a concern for me.

                          And for sure he is not being helped by some of the muck his pack are providing him with. We need venom in our clearing out. It's not there.

                          And this is NOT abuse of Murray. He played a Murray type game and did so reasonably well. I just think that unless we're looking to play a methodical grinding game (Schmidtball, to be lazy about it), his skillset isn't optimal. He's still a cracking 'setpiece scrumhalf' - the length and accuracy of pass is wonderful; but once things break up, his effectiveness is diminished. We have a big call to make on our game and our starting nine for next season.

                          And when did Barnes become one of those refs who doesn't care what sort of glawming of defenders who were no more part of the ruck that I was, sitting on my cushy well padded sofa? He used to be a stickler for that ****e, but today he was channeling his inner early-Poite.
                          Last edited by Red October; 12th-January-2020, 22:44.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                            Didn't see the game, listened to Mick and Donal on the radio.

                            Whenever we get to the ejection I seem to think of the 2013 final. Toulon and Clermont in Dublin.

                            Tis a money sport now and has been for years. Saracens got injuries and brought Schalk Burger and Will Skelton on the books as joker's.

                            We are never, ever, going to compete with the wallet, it's just not going to happen.

                            The teams we keep suffering to are moneymade, and, sickeningly, our closest and fiercest rival have become the rugby version of barcelona FC.

                            I can't see Munster winning Europe again, the gap between the wealth and the rest will only widen in years to come.
                            Money is a rather scarce commodity in New Zealand Rugby but both The All Blacks and The Crusaders seem to do ok.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by glorob View Post

                              Money is a rather scarce commodity in New Zealand Rugby but both The All Blacks and The Crusaders seem to do ok.
                              And yet, theyve never won a European cup, unlike Saracens and Toulon who have six of the last seven.

                              Now what do those two clubs have in common?
                              I am the million man.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post
                                The clearing out of players beyond the ruck Seems to be happening incessantly in all games now.
                                This all ****ing damn day. It is CONSTANT and nobody calls it. Japan did it to Ireland, and nay team that has turnover threats on it has it done to them for all 80 minutes. It is infuriating when guys are being held 2 meters past the ball and the ref just stands there and lets it go on.

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