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HEC R5. Racing vs. Munster. Paris. TV Coverage BT Sport. Sunday 12th Jan @3.15pm

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    Originally posted by Redcafe1 View Post

    With the game on a Sunday decision could really be taken as late as Friday.
    Presumably it could actually be taken as late as Sunday- with all eventualities covered in the travelling party (eg select JJ, but prep Healy in case the expected progress/fitness checks don’t return the expected reassurance). Not ideal, I realise, but nothing about this situation is. It’s tempting, with only one match before a break after Paris, to hold JJ back anyway and ensure our only experienced 10 is in his best shape for the last few months.

    Comment


      We may well be talking here on Sunday evening of one of those special games....

      Comment


        Interesting how people on this forum have more insight into JJ's injury prognosis than the Munster medical team and management. If JJ is named I take it he's fit. Carbery came back a couple of weeks ago after being given plenty of time off by Munster (which the IRFU didn't give him) so I don't for a second believe Munster would put a players welfare at risk if they don't believe it's possible for him to play a full game.
        Backs against the wall this weekend, lose and its ball burst. Papers, radio and tv writing them off. Roll on Sunday!

        Comment


          Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post
          We may well be talking here on Sunday evening of one of those special games....
          Or more likely a hiding and our European exit.
          Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
          Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

          Comment




            Winning in Paris would be the biggest turnaround in form I've seen from Munster.


            The first problem is we'll have to stop them scoring.

            The second is that we'll have to score.



            We don't look like doing either of those things at this point.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

              Winning in Paris would be the biggest turnaround in form I've seen from Munster.


              The first problem is we'll have to stop them scoring.

              The second is that we'll have to score.



              We don't look like doing either of those things at this point.
              Exactly.

              Adolf might confirm but I saw Racing quoted @ 1/4. In a 2 horse race that's massive.
              Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
              Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

              Comment


                Listened to Rog on OTB, his take on the game is not exactly positive.

                What stood out:
                • Carbery is a thoroughbred horse and liable to injury that little bit more perhaps due to his fast twitch muscles. Hes that bit more fragile because hes so special. Joe Molloy mentioned Joey has started 4 games in 12 months :(
                • Racing play with pace and width, you kick the ball loosely to their back three and you're under your own posts sooner or later
                • Munster playing a kicking game will not be enough, they will lap it up. Munster have to win collisions - if only to allow the backline and offloading game start to rumble
                • Finn Russell is in the form of his life, they've so many weapons out wide
                • Munster's confidence looks low of late, upheaval, injuries and results are all contributors to this
                It all sounded like we are in for a world of hurt.
                I am the million man.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Miguel Sanchez View Post

                  Exactly.

                  Adolf might confirm but I saw Racing quoted @ 1/4. In a 2 horse race that's massive.

                  I'd say that's about right.


                  I know we're in transition and all the rest, but some of the holes are gaping for me at the moment.

                  We're a team aspiring to play knock out rugby in Europe that does not have a recognised first choice open side. We don't have an established first choice centre pairing.

                  We had glimpses of a game plan a month or so ago and very little since. Our line out looks ropey and vulnerable to attack. Our error rate is astonishingly high.

                  What bothers me more than all that though, given the stuff about transition and all the rest, is I'm not hearing anyone sounding in any way excited about what's going on.

                  When McGahan was involved in the set up, ROG, POC and other senior players were very vocal in their support. Players talked openly about the Penney game plan and the need to evolve.


                  I could cope with Munster struggling to adjust at the moment if there was any sense that players and coaches are committed to some sort of collective endeavour here. I know it's media noise and we don't know how players really feel, but the noises coming from former players seem to range from bafflement to disappointment.


                  The most we can hope for going to Paris, I think, is a credible and cohesive performance that shows some signs of progress. It doesn't feel to me like this is a team just waiting to click.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                    Listened to Rog on OTB, his take on the game is not exactly positive.

                    What stood out:
                    • Carbery is a thoroughbred horse and liable to injury that little bit more perhaps due to his fast twitch muscles. Hes that bit more fragile because hes so special. Joe Molloy mentioned Joey has started 4 games in 12 months :(
                    • Racing play with pace and width, you kick the ball loosely to their back three and you're under your own posts sooner or later
                    • Munster playing a kicking game will not be enough, they will lap it up. Munster have to win collisions - if only to allow the backline and offloading game start to rumble
                    • Finn Russell is in the form of his life, they've so many weapons out wide
                    • Munster's confidence looks low of late, upheaval, injuries and results are all contributors to this
                    It all sounded like we are in for a world of hurt.
                    Absolutely. Everything points towards a home victory and a not inconsiderable margin.

                    Munster are clearly at a very low ebb. The players are relatively underpowered and are prone to errors. Many front liners are out injured. The oft talked about new game plan hasn't born much fruit as of yet, and against tougher opposition we tend to revert to type (one out runners etc). Our recent form has been poor.

                    I'm finding it impossible to see any positives tbh.

                    I'll be watching from behind several couches on Sunday.
                    Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                    Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post
                      We may well be talking here on Sunday evening of one of those special games....
                      You mean the first time a pro team scores 500 points in a game?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


                        I'd say that's about right.


                        I know we're in transition and all the rest, but some of the holes are gaping for me at the moment.

                        We're a team aspiring to play knock out rugby in Europe that does not have a recognised first choice open side. We don't have an established first choice centre pairing.

                        We had glimpses of a game plan a month or so ago and very little since. Our line out looks ropey and vulnerable to attack. Our error rate is astonishingly high.

                        What bothers me more than all that though, given the stuff about transition and all the rest, is I'm not hearing anyone sounding in any way excited about what's going on.

                        When McGahan was involved in the set up, ROG, POC and other senior players were very vocal in their support. Players talked openly about the Penney game plan and the need to evolve.


                        I could cope with Munster struggling to adjust at the moment if there was any sense that players and coaches are committed to some sort of collective endeavour here. I know it's media noise and we don't know how players really feel, but the noises coming from former players seem to range from bafflement to disappointment.


                        The most we can hope for going to Paris, I think, is a credible and cohesive performance that shows some signs of progress. It doesn't feel to me like this is a team just waiting to click.
                        Ya I agree with a lot of this, and I think we've seen the squad pummeled to a pulp already this season. Internationals went to Japan and came home to take on an enormous Racing team, then Sarries twice, then Leinster - all the while without any great time to implement what (I pray and hope) is a cohesive plan the new lads are demanding.

                        Its been week to week for the likes of POM and CJ, whereas the guys who got a preseason have looked way way better i.e. Kevin O'Byrne, Jacko, Fineen, Goggin, Daly Haley, etc.

                        Land the injury crises on top and you're into the doldrums fairly lively, our key playmakers are crocked (Joey and Tyler) some other x factor boys are not looking sharp (Earlsy) yet. Then you've Beirne breaking an ankle, Botha's citing, Killer missing for ages and hes a key ball carrier and on and on and on. We've so few top end players right now its alarming.



                        Its just been a bit of a balls up for the myriad of reasons you've outlined, and the squad looks tiny all of a sudden. What concerns me most is why fellas are not tearing up trees when the opportunities are afforded them due to injury, the 3 off the top of my head that come to mind: Darren O'Shea, Chris Cloete, Nick Mac. We need the deputies showing reason to persist after the front liners leave for Ireland or Injury.

                        I am the million man.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post



                          POM has been in poor form this season but you obviously think he gets picked no matter what even moving him to 7.

                          JOS has done more in his appearances off the bench than Cloete/Botha this season.

                          If it isn't obvious to you by know that you need to get ball carriers into your team to compete against the stronger teams and give you go forward ball which makes Murrays and the rest of the backs job easier. That is why CJ/JOD your two most in form backrowers were in my team with JOS. If TOD was fit he would be in at 7 with JOS dropped.

                          You put Farrell at 12 (where he looked good for Ireland also) it gives a crash ball option with good hands to distribute with Goggin also as a carrying option outside him and also provides more solidity in defence.

                          Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
                          I think you are genuine with this comment or at least I can see the merit in your point. POM will probably get the nod though, because of his poaching ability on lineouts and on their attacking ball, which is also why I think he will still be selected for Ireland, though there's a lot of talk he won't (usually your gainline point is made as one of the principle reasons, when justifying him being dropped).

                          Then there is the leadership question...he does have it and not all players do. Packs in particular I think need leaders to keep a team in a game when things are going badly.

                          That's my tuppence ha'penny's worth!

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Chrizzzie View Post

                            In Europe POM is a different animal and more so when he has his back against the wall. Also his leadership is required on Sunday more than ever.

                            We also need to have his line-out skills. Although I agree that his form is less he is still our strongest asset in the line-out and we know that Racing can cause us problems here so POM is badly needed for this.
                            Apologies Chrizzie….I only saw you made the same points as I scrolled down.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Sea Horse View Post

                              Apologies Chrizzie….I only saw you made the same points as I scrolled down.
                              No worries. It's good to see that other people share my thoughts. Confirms that I'm not talking sh#te all the time :)

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post





                                Its just been a bit of a balls up for the myriad of reasons you've outlined, and the squad looks tiny all of a sudden. What concerns me most is why fellas are not tearing up trees when the opportunities are afforded them due to injury, the 3 off the top of my head that come to mind: Darren O'Shea, Chris Cloete, Nick Mac. We need the deputies showing reason to persist after the front liners leave for Ireland or Injury.

                                Big questions for me on that too. This is exactly the sort of period where over the years the likes of Niall Ronan put a marker down. If nothing else you'd be expecting to see maniacal aggression.


                                Maybe Cloete's infringement errors are coming from being too keen to get stuck in?

                                O'Shea is 27, 6 foot 9 and 18 and a half stone. If not now, like...?



                                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                                Comment

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