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P14 R10) Ulster v Us - Kingspan Stadium - Friday 3rd Jan - 19:35 KO

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    Originally posted by Redcafe1 View Post
    Now that JVG has publicly taken full responsibility for last night ( rightfully), I hope that within the dressing room the players do likewise.
    Didn’t see his comments- but the TV picture of the three wise men at the end spoke volumes. More despondent than angry. It needs to be the dressing room as a whole, as you say. This group, with a few additions and omissions has to do it, this and for the next two/three years. Third best province is simply not good enough.

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      Originally posted by reded View Post
      Which of the Leinster players are suggested to move to Munster on your local Leinster supporting site?
      we have what we have, we have taken the Leinster cast offs till they are coming out our ears. If our players can’t win collisions is there any chance you could suggest some players we could move to Munster without weakening the Leinster team. once you do that we will sack the incumbent Munster wasters/ previous Leinster players and employ the New Leinster cast offs which will obviously better than the previous bunch.
      Thanks for ongoing help and altruistic interest in Munster Rugby
      You play players like JOS, JOD, Wycherly , Coombes, Hodnett, Casey, Healy far more often

      Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

      Comment


        Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
        The sport has evolved. the so called traditional Munster game will win f all in this day and age. It hasn't been completely replaced or got rid of anyway.
        Fair comment, and as F79 has pointed out, the commitment to an off-loading game does seem to have become a bit more diluted, and seems to me to be becoming limited to the odd slick training ground move, and there is little evidence of intuitive inventive play on the fly - we do not seem to be playing a game that comes naturally to our players.....yet.

        I think that, to play the off loading game successfully, it takes time and/or players who are comfortable with, and have the imagination and intuition to, play that type of game.
        I think Killer is the player who has best demonstrated an ability to reinvent himself and adapt his game, and we need more of his commitment to change if we are to have any chance of successfully adapting our game.

        In the meantime I think we need to continue to nurture the more innate Munster skills, so as to be able to deploy the 45 phase game when circumstances suggest it is needed.
        BTW I agree that we need to go wide more often (but not all the time), our most creative players are currently at 11 and 14 IMO...........maybe we need something unpredictable in the core of the team........another Woodie perhaps...................or even a Zebo?
        Last edited by Surveyor; 4th-January-2020, 11:47.
        'twas wicked yousir!

        Comment


          Watching that, we're falling between two stools & it's too ambitious to think we can win something this year while converting our coaching & game plan. I'd rather they came to their senses, came out & said that this year is a write off, it might get ugly but we're playing to bed in the new system, next year will be different. My biggest fear is that this run of games makes the team doubt what they're doing.

          When you see Earl's put in the game he did today, you know the ideas arent bedded in, he was all over the place. Murray needs to be dropped, DOS needs to be let go, I'd rather see my granny line out in the second row. He did Neil Francis level ruckwatching & couldn't tackle a bag of crisps.

          Mathewson going is a huge indictment of the irfu protocols, our entire team looked better with him playing & it's to other players detriment that he's gone, he was to Larkham what Sexton was to Schmidt IMO, the on field coach. Home grown Munster players won't be getting capped for Ireland playing like that, whatever their aim was.

          I really believe we need to change our game & stick with it, our coaches have immense pedigree & I'd back them.

          Comment


            We seemed to have much better shape in attack and looked slicker in passing and off loading 2 months ago. Not sure is it the constant player rotation, injuries, internationals or what, but we look like we’ve regressed. Maybe opposition have figured us out. We look like we have a couple of new moves off set piece, but once we get 4 or 5 phases in we kinda run out of ideas and either box kick or get turned over.
            The box kick setup has become so slow, my granny could get in field position defend it.
            Dont need reason, dont need rhyme,
            Aint nothin I would rather do,
            Goin down, party time,
            My friends are gonna be there too

            I'm on a Highway to Hell ...

            Comment


              Well, that's it for me, lads. I've been watching Munster since the 60's an never saw such crap. Had a quick look at our panel for next season and it looks like we will have 6 Saffers, 2 Kiwis, 6 ex-Leinster, 2 Brits and a Nordie with about 10 from Cork, 4 from Limerick, 1 Blaa an a couple from Tipp. That's not Munster or anything like it. So in future I'll just stick with the club game an give up on the circus that Munster has become.

              Comment


                Originally posted by TomsOnTheRoof View Post
                ​​​Just after JvG was announced I remember having a conversation with a couple of Bok supporters. They were delighted he was coming up because as far as they were concerned he had gotten up the ladder due to his father's position in one of the domestic unions in SA rather than any coaching ability. Rassie never did anything without a reason. He left us high and dry and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he foisted JvG onto us in order to free the union of a millstone.
                I don't think this anecdote should be dismissed so easily. There was plenty of similar sentiment on here and the rugby internet communities at the time. While I'm not certain it's true I think it is realistic enough to be kept in mind. Rassie has shown himself to be an excellent political player and mover and if the above is true it allows him to move JvG on to a better job than the one he had in SA at the time, bring in his own backroom team (shamelessly nabbed from Munster) and keep all parties happy. Rassie does what's best for Rassie. We may not like it but you gotta respect how he plays the political game.

                For what it's worth, I'm not convinced that the above is exactly what's happened, but I think there's enough clear to us all that I am not willing to dismiss it outright. Ultimately we'll never know so I guess there's little to be gained by trying to figure it out.

                I remain optimistic that next season (likely needing Munster to not worry about Europe for the rest of this season) is when we'll see Larkham's/Rowntree's influence come to fruition with some bigger names in the team. Fineen, Gavin Coombes, Shane Daly, Goggin, Casey will all have significantly more game time under their belt to join those bigger signings. I look forward to it but being successful this season is asking too much, too soon in a condensed year for these players and coaches

                Comment


                  Murray for me is a massive problem. Anybody can have a bad Game or go through a bad patch but his performances have been abysmal since his neck injury. Before he was the cornerstone of the team. Undroppable.

                  in 2008 when we were at the crossroads of a European season. Dk made a call from left field and dumped stringer and Payne. I feel jvg needs to be bold next week with team selection
                  Last edited by BigLad; 4th-January-2020, 11:02.

                  Comment


                    Well, that's it for me, lads. I've been watching Munster since the 60's an never saw such crap
                    Can't argue with the timespan. I only started watching in the 90s but still recall getting our arses handed to us by 50pts at Ospreys in a knockout, looking like dopes in a Pro14 final by Scarlets and numerous beatings away over the years (Paris, Glasgow) where the heads dropped and we fell off one tackle in three against teams barely breaking a sweat. It's been much, much worse than this.

                    But if next week doesn't work out I'd like management to prioritise blooding new players and make this a proper transitional year where we accept some losses as part of the bigger picture. Can't keep pretending a new system needs time and a month in, start namechecking the 'must win' games vital to our season. *This may be more of a media thing but short memories nonetheless.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Angus Axe View Post
                      We seemed to have much better shape in attack and looked slicker in passing and off loading 2 months ago. Not sure is it the constant player rotation, injuries, internationals or what, but we look like we’ve regressed. Maybe opposition have figured us out. We look like we have a couple of new moves off set piece, but once we get 4 or 5 phases in we kinda run out of ideas and either box kick or get turned over.
                      The box kick setup has become so slow, my granny could get in field position defend it.

                      It looks to me like the bad habits have crept in again for a few reasons.
                      1. We're playing better quality opposition lately.
                      2. The internationals have come back and hadn't had time to really learn the systems.
                      3. There's been a lot of chopping and changing recently with players been played out of position which is a JVG trait.
                      4. The weather has gotten worse so a change of tactics.


                      Since all that started happening the silky backline play has stopped and the tries have stopped. The players look confused and are trying to force things which is resulting in more mistakes and confidence going down.


                      It might be a blessing to get knocked out of Europe early and concentrate on the league and building for next year. I still think they can win in Paris though.


                      What I'd like to see is players playing in their natural position and sticking to the style that they were playing earlier in the season as much as possible. This season was always going to be a transition.

                      Comment


                        [QUOTE=Kevy-Wevz;n2589659]

                        I don't think this anecdote should be dismissed so easily. There was plenty of similar sentiment on here and the rugby internet communities at the time. While I'm not certain it's true I think it is realistic enough to be kept in mind. Rassie has shown himself to be an excellent political player and mover and if the above is true it allows him to move JvG on to a better job than the one he had in SA at the time, bring in his own backroom team (shamelessly nabbed from Munster) and keep all parties happy. Rassie does what's best for Rassie. We may not like it but you gotta respect how he plays the political game.

                        For what it's worth, I'm not convinced that the above is exactly what's happened, but I think there's enough clear to us all that I am not willing to dismiss it outright. Ultimately we'll never know so I guess there's little to be gained by trying to figure it out.

                        I remain optimistic that next season (likely needing Munster to not worry about Europe for the rest of this season) is when we'll see Larkham's/Rowntree's influence come to fruition with some bigger names in the team. Fineen, Gavin Coombes, Shane Daly, Goggin, Casey will all have significantly more game time under their belt to join those bigger signings. I look forward to it but being successful this season is asking too much, too soon in a condensed year for these players and coaches[/QUOTE

                        With this in mind I can only see the situation going in one of two ways 1 Larkham will say F this for a game of soldiers be out the door at the first opportunity or 2 he will fight so hard to move the team forward he will be the one that the team listen to and will usurp JvG

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Amar56 View Post

                          Can't argue with the timespan. I only started watching in the 90s but still recall getting our arses handed to us by 50pts at Ospreys in a knockout, looking like dopes in a Pro14 final by Scarlets and numerous beatings away over the years (Paris, Glasgow) where the heads dropped and we fell off one tackle in three against teams barely breaking a sweat. It's been much, much worse than this.

                          But if next week doesn't work out I'd like management to prioritise blooding new players and make this a proper transitional year where we accept some losses as part of the bigger picture. Can't keep pretending a new system needs time and a month in, start namechecking the 'must win' games vital to our season. *This may be more of a media thing but short memories nonetheless.
                          100 percent with this. But it’s a culture in the irfu and we have seen it with Ireland over the years. No matter how good you are or potentially you have to wait for the established player to quit before taking his place. Ie. heas lip. Kearney. Easterby. Best. Corrigan. And a few Munster lads to be fair.

                          I remember Brent pope making a point that Ireland pick a team to win the next game rather than looking to the big picture. The policy that Farrell should have is that any player that will be too old for rwc 2023 should nt be considered for upcoming six nations. Blood the new players. Sure we won’t win it. Prob get beaten but the 3 and half years those players will grow and peak at an age of 27 28 at the next rwc.

                          The problem I have with Munster is that the likes of jod. Goggin wynch are getting older but don’t seem to be nailing a place on the Munster team. I for one am massively impressed by goggin. He had some fantastic performances earlier in the season but for no reason can’t make euro squads. Casey and Knox need to be blooded in too Casey will learn more by being dropped in at that deep end with the likes of Pom. Carberry cj etc rather then playing home pro 14 games v Cardiff with our second team.

                          Comment


                            Leinster and Ulster seem to be less affected by rotating their internationals, but I think this is because they have more settled systems and game plans.

                            For the most part, the bulk of the returning RWC players seem out of sorts at all provinces. That Schmidt peak in 2018 has taken a huge toll on the players.

                            I have little doubt that we are mid-stream in new coaches and systems and last night showed this up.

                            From a longer term point of view, getting knocked out of Europe next week will be a good thing because it will allow to coaching ticket more freedom for the rest of the Pro14 season. Hoping for a once-off Munster away win in Paris misses the point.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
                            Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

                            Comment


                              What is this new system? Seems to me were still utterly blunt in attack.
                              Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                              Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Angus Axe View Post
                                We seemed to have much better shape in attack and looked slicker in passing and off loading 2 months ago. Not sure is it the constant player rotation, injuries, internationals or what, but we look like we’ve regressed. Maybe opposition have figured us out. We look like we have a couple of new moves off set piece, but once we get 4 or 5 phases in we kinda run out of ideas and either box kick or get turned over.
                                The box kick setup has become so slow, my granny could get in field position defend it.
                                Agree with a lot this post, but I think the standard of opposition and the lack of game time with the new system the internationals have had, needs to be taken into account. In preseason, the non-world cup playing squad had 3/4 weeks to adapt to the new style and then got an opportunity to try things against poor Dragons/Kings/Ospreys teams. While at the same time, the internationals were playing a very different style with Schmidt. I think we are seeing glimpses of Munster's game plan evolving (e.g. John Ryan ran a nice line and offloaded out of the tackle to Niall Scannell), but it will take time.



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