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    #61
    Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

    Thomond attendances are generally bigger than the capacity in Cork (including the quarter final). The stadium however is too big. 18K similar to Ravenhill or the RDS would have been a much better size, but they knew when building it that it would only be full 3-4 times a year.

    And you keep banging the drum about the quarter final. They had a week to sell tickets and it was two weeks after the semi in Coventry. People aren't made of money. 10K was a respectable attendance in the circumstances.
    10k is a grand attendance. My point is we don't get it regularly. If you were at Thomond for that quarter final and also attended regular pro14 games you would notice that the 10k QF was close to twice what you get for standard league games.

    I am not banging any drum here. if you get 5/6k at a game and that includes a 2k walk up crowd that means that you have around 7k with pre-purchased tickets who are sitting at home with their tickets in a drawer. Great we have the money in but that is an unusual situation and something that is of some concern. A portion of these non attenders are 5 and 10 year ticked holders. Are they going to renew and give the club badly needed stability? They don't value the pro14 and Champions cup game's rarely sell out now so season ticket and longterm tickets aren't essential to secure your seat there any more.

    Comment


      #62
      It's true (and disappointing) that when a large portion of the 10 year ticket holders only attend the big European fixtures, it leaves noticeable gaps in the stands for league games. Even when a game is a sellout, it can still be frustrating to see the occasional empty seat, even though of course sometimes people's plans go awry when it's too late to do anything about getting someone else into the ground in their place (incidentally, does anybody know were all/most of the 10 year tickets in the middle section, i.e. between the 22s, or were they spread throughout the ground?).

      Of course it would be better if more people attend games, both in terms of atmosphere and in terms of ancillary income streams, i.e. bars/food etc. There are efforts to encourage this - the MRSC introduced an initiative 2 or 3 years ago whereby people could make their tickets available through the online ticket exchange, and I've benefited from that myself on more than one occasion. Plus of course the allocation of 5000 discounted tickets per game in TP for the juniors is a significant but very worthwhile investment in nurturing future support, along with free entry for younger family members of season ticket holders IIRC (don't have kids myself so not 100% sure if that's how it works). But I think you're drastically underestimating crowd sizes if you reckon that only 5-6k on average are turning up in Thomond for league games.

      Going back to your opening post, you seemed to have a pretty negative view of the league. This may have been coloured by your notion that everyone sends weakened teams over to play us, that it's boring when we pretty much only have to turn up to win at home and we are assured of a semi final by the end of the season. You were comparing today's league games with the HEC miracle matches of yesteryear, i.e. different competitions with different opponents and different paths to ultimate victory. Do you still think this, or do you accept that given where we were a few years ago, this is a somewhat skewed, perhaps complacent way of looking at things these days? In terms of growing attendance, I think 15% of an increase is pretty good going, but of course I don't think we should rest on our laurels. Have you any ideas yourself about what other initiatives could be introduced which would attract more punters into the ground on matchday? I'm not asking this to have a go - I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.
      Tis but a scratch.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by hayeser View Post

        10k is a grand attendance. My point is we don't get it regularly. If you were at Thomond for that quarter final and also attended regular pro14 games you would notice that the 10k QF was close to twice what you get for standard league games.

        I am not banging any drum here. if you get 5/6k at a game and that includes a 2k walk up crowd that means that you have around 7k with pre-purchased tickets who are sitting at home with their tickets in a drawer. Great we have the money in but that is an unusual situation and something that is of some concern. A portion of these non attenders are 5 and 10 year ticked holders. Are they going to renew and give the club badly needed stability? They don't value the pro14 and Champions cup game's rarely sell out now so season ticket and longterm tickets aren't essential to secure your seat there any more.
        Some of those spaces are people like me, overseas but season ticket holder year after year. I usually don’t know which fixtures I can make much in advance and if games require an overnight it gets very expensive, so that inevitably means choosing between fixtures. That said I’d prefer to pay up, have the option, and Munster have the guarantee of the money. Even when at home a Friday wasn’t always very easy unless it was in your home city- that’s an inevitability when you’ve got two cities to serve with fixtures- not a problem most other sides have.

        Play attractive winning rugby, make sure transport between cork and Limerick is sensibly timed, stop hotels scalping Munster fans (how about a discount scheme for match day cork/Limerick hotels for season ticket holders??), try to ensure there is a flight back to the uk on Sunday morning (usually 8pm/10pm on Sunday night- which is a pain after a Saturday game).
        Last edited by jagawayagain; 11th-July-2019, 16:59.

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by hayeser View Post

          10k is a grand attendance. My point is we don't get it regularly. If you were at Thomond for that quarter final and also attended regular pro14 games you would notice that the 10k QF was close to twice what you get for standard league games.

          I am not banging any drum here. if you get 5/6k at a game and that includes a 2k walk up crowd that means that you have around 7k with pre-purchased tickets who are sitting at home with their tickets in a drawer. Great we have the money in but that is an unusual situation and something that is of some concern. A portion of these non attenders are 5 and 10 year ticked holders. Are they going to renew and give the club badly needed stability? They don't value the pro14 and Champions cup game's rarely sell out now so season ticket and longterm tickets aren't essential to secure your seat there any more.
          I attend every pro 14 home game and the quarter final was one of the smallest attendances of the season. Quite simply, you're talking rubbish claiming that there's normally only 5-6k in the ground.

          Comment


            #65
            Originally posted by mr chips View Post
            .......

            Going back to your opening post, you seemed to have a pretty negative view of the league. This may have been coloured by your notion that everyone sends weakened teams over to play us, that it's boring when we pretty much only have to turn up to win at home and we are assured of a semi final by the end of the season. You were comparing today's league games with the HEC miracle matches of yesteryear, i.e. different competitions with different opponents and different paths to ultimate victory.
            If all the year were playing holiday, to sport would be as tedious as to work, as Willie Shakespeare said.

            Not every game can be an epic thunderous clash. But surely there's great pleasure in an early season balmy outing in MP/IIP or TP, when the anticipation of the season to come is high, and we try to famiiarise ourselves with a few new moves and players.

            One of these months or years we will be back on the pinnacle. In the meantime, let's appreciate our players, coaches and fellow-fans.


            Comment


              #66
              Originally posted by mr chips View Post
              It's true (and disappointing) that when a large portion of the 10 year ticket holders only attend the big European fixtures, it leaves noticeable gaps in the stands for league games. Even when a game is a sellout, it can still be frustrating to see the occasional empty seat, even though of course sometimes people's plans go awry when it's too late to do anything about getting someone else into the ground in their place (incidentally, does anybody know were all/most of the 10 year tickets in the middle section, i.e. between the 22s, or were they spread throughout the ground?).

              Of course it would be better if more people attend games, both in terms of atmosphere and in terms of ancillary income streams, i.e. bars/food etc. There are efforts to encourage this - the MRSC introduced an initiative 2 or 3 years ago whereby people could make their tickets available through the online ticket exchange, and I've benefited from that myself on more than one occasion. Plus of course the allocation of 5000 discounted tickets per game in TP for the juniors is a significant but very worthwhile investment in nurturing future support, along with free entry for younger family members of season ticket holders IIRC (don't have kids myself so not 100% sure if that's how it works). But I think you're drastically underestimating crowd sizes if you reckon that only 5-6k on average are turning up in Thomond for league games.

              Going back to your opening post, you seemed to have a pretty negative view of the league. This may have been coloured by your notion that everyone sends weakened teams over to play us, that it's boring when we pretty much only have to turn up to win at home and we are assured of a semi final by the end of the season. You were comparing today's league games with the HEC miracle matches of yesteryear, i.e. different competitions with different opponents and different paths to ultimate victory. Do you still think this, or do you accept that given where we were a few years ago, this is a somewhat skewed, perhaps complacent way of looking at things these days? In terms of growing attendance, I think 15% of an increase is pretty good going, but of course I don't think we should rest on our laurels. Have you any ideas yourself about what other initiatives could be introduced which would attract more punters into the ground on matchday? I'm not asking this to have a go - I'm genuinely interested in your thoughts.
              When u buy a 10 or 5 year ticket u get to look at all available seats and pick which 1 u want ,sit in it to see if u still like it , but as they are cat A they show u between the 22s


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                As one of the complainers in chief I'd have to plead guilty to expressing my disappointment fairly regularly, but it's not this disappointment.

                I don't think the lack of enthusiasm has been caused by the success of the past. And I don't think that it's unacceptable that we're not winning cups.

                But what I do find unacceptable is the utter predictability of that. When we drew at Sandy Park in October I was castigated a bit for saying that it was a poor performance, and that it pointed towards an identical season to so many that have come before. I pretty much knew where we were headed in October, which has been to pretty much the same place year on year for some time now.

                I knew that in October, it came to pass, and the coaching ticket did nothing about it in the meantime.

                I'm allowing myself some optimism for next season given the changes, but you can't expect people to be on board for the journey when we're restarting the same journey for what seems to me to be the fifth time in ten years.

                McGahan-Penney-Foley-Erasmus-JVG-JVG ++

                Bar the fact that McGahan was an utter calamity, we've made no discernible or sustained progress in that time, imo.

                That's what I find frustrating. I can cope with failing. I'd just rather we were, as Beckett suggested, failing better.
                To be fair you called the attack problem after the Leinster match in Lansdowne Road. While I had hoped things would improve in attack, they did not.

                Very happy to see the new coaching set-up - a clear step up in terms of experience and the World Cup could be good for us in terms of developing a new way of playing with less pressure.

                Hoping that Carbery will be fit, but we also need to ensure that there are no untouchables when it comes to selection. Last season, it seems the mind was made up on the starting XV no matter what. That has to change - the Kidney era was notable for bolters emerging through the season - Barry Murphy, Dowling, Hurley, O'Leary.
                Last edited by The Last Stand; 12th-July-2019, 06:13.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                  Hoping that Carbery will be fit, but we also need to ensure that there are no untouchables when it comes to selection. Last season, it seems the mind was made up on the starting XV no matter what. That has to change - the Kidney era was notable for bolters emerging through the season - Barry Murphy, Dowling, Hurley, O'Leary.
                  I agree there shouldn’t be untouchables, but I don’t think there were last season- between injuries and players coming back who we needed to see play to justify a contract (TB), the squad had to rotate. Too much so at times. We also saw quite a few younger players get game time. Two semis is a decent season, but the manner of the defeat in both was the true measure of how much change is needed. Management of the team/squad selection was one of the few things I was completely happy with (given the constraints).

                  Comment


                    #69
                    We had a lot of rotation last season, maybe too much at times but we had a large squad needing game time
                    "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                    Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                    Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

                      I attend every pro 14 home game and the quarter final was one of the smallest attendances of the season. Quite simply, you're talking rubbish claiming that there's normally only 5-6k in the ground.
                      In fairness Wallyman I was at the quarter in Thomond and a few of the home games in the league and there was a sizeable increase in crowds for that game compared to the league, i wouldnt say 5-6k was too wide of the mark. Some of the players have even mentioned (privately) that a full and buzzy musgraves is a nicer place to play in the league.

                      The problem with Thomond is that it has always relied on the whole of munster to fill it, its always been a bit of a fable that limerick fans were the drive behind the ground/atmosphere. For whatever reason people from the rest of the province dont travel to limerick for league games (whether its kickoff times which are crap, or financial issues or lack of interest due to it being on tv also) and the limerick population have deserted the place too. Cork manages well for the league due to the population being much bigger, i would vouch if you put some bigger games there and they had the capacity you could hit 15k easy attendance wise.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by wellboy View Post

                        In fairness Wallyman I was at the quarter in Thomond and a few of the home games in the league and there was a sizeable increase in crowds for that game compared to the league, i wouldnt say 5-6k was too wide of the mark. Some of the players have even mentioned (privately) that a full and buzzy musgraves is a nicer place to play in the league.

                        The problem with Thomond is that it has always relied on the whole of munster to fill it, its always been a bit of a fable that limerick fans were the drive behind the ground/atmosphere. For whatever reason people from the rest of the province dont travel to limerick for league games (whether its kickoff times which are crap, or financial issues or lack of interest due to it being on tv also) and the limerick population have deserted the place too. Cork manages well for the league due to the population being much bigger, i would vouch if you put some bigger games there and they had the capacity you could hit 15k easy attendance wise.
                        Well I have to disagree. Yes some of the crowds have been small, but not 5-6K small. That would mean that 7-8k weren't turning up for each match. In a season where the number of 5/10 year tickets had reduced from 5K to around 2.5K. That just didn't happen.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

                          Well I have to disagree. Yes some of the crowds have been small, but not 5-6K small. That would mean that 7-8k weren't turning up for each match. In a season where the number of 5/10 year tickets had reduced from 5K to around 2.5K. That just didn't happen.
                          All i know is i was at games during the season and the place was practically empty with official attendances around 10k. When the quarters attendance was announced with the same numbers i know something was up. There definitely felt like a huge increase in numbers at that game compared to say the Ulster match.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by wellboy View Post

                            All i know is i was at games during the season and the place was practically empty with official attendances around 10k. When the quarters attendance was announced with the same numbers i know something was up. There definitely felt like a huge increase in numbers at that game compared to say the Ulster match.
                            The smallest official attendance outside the Treviso game was 12,265 for Cheetahs. Ulster was 13,907. Are you really saying that 8,000 ticket holders didn't turn up for the Ulster game? The crowd was poor, but not that poor. I was also at all the games and have spoken to others who were there as well, and nobody agrees that the crowds were that small.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              10,000 doesn't look very full in a 26k stadium, lots of empty space. I was at the Ulster & Cheetahs games too and would guess there was ~10k at each
                              "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                              Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                              Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                              Comment


                                #75
                                • 2018/2019 attendances.
                                Ireland Leinster 12 206,905 17,242 50,120 10,057 78%
                                Ireland Ulster 11 152,182 13,835 17,358 11,882 76%
                                Ireland Munster 11 142,094 12,918 26,267 8,008 75%
                                Wales Scarlets 11 92,877 8,443 12,012 7,180 57%
                                Scotland Glasgow Warriors 12 92,802 7,734 10,000 7,135 99%
                                Wales Cardiff Blues[f] 9 66,237 7,360 12,000 5,312 61%
                                Scotland Edinburgh 10 68,321 6,832 21,190 4,258 10%
                                Wales Ospreys 11 74,936 6,812 13,251 4,264 36%
                                Ireland Connacht 11 66,142 6,013 8,129 4,056 74%
                                Wales Dragons[g] 9 46,111 5,123 7,376 4,012 59%
                                South Africa Cheetahs 11 49,979 4,544 6,500 2,846 9%
                                Italy Benetton 10 33,802 3,380 5,000 2,200 50%
                                Italy Zebre 11 33,450 3,041 4,600 1,700 60%
                                South Africa Southern Kings 10 28,175 2,818 5,096 1,142 14%
                                Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

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