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Munster Squad 2019-2020

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    Being honest I don't think Rassie would have won anything with us with the gameplan we had. If he had the bombsquad coming off the bench in the last 20 then maybe, but as was proven with the squad we had we always came up short at the pointy end of the competition. Our players looked like an underage team trying to overpower Sarries in the semi final. They blew us away.
    When things go wrong, blame McGahan

    Comment


      Originally posted by B.A. View Post
      Being honest I don't think Rassie would have won anything with us with the gameplan we had. If he had the bombsquad coming off the bench in the last 20 then maybe, but as was proven with the squad we had we always came up short at the pointy end of the competition. Our players looked like an underage team trying to overpower Sarries in the semi final. They blew us away.
      True. But at this stage he'd have had an extra 2 years on players and game plan. You're right - he might have plateaued. But when you leave somewhere on an upward trajectory, people will tend to write in the continuing trend line for you.

      I mean McGahan peaked (for me in the 2009 QF against Ospreys) plateaued and went backwards. You couldn't have predicted any of that without seeing it, really.
      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

      Comment


        Who cares if hes the coach or not?

        look at what he has put in place:

        Prince Joey at 10
        RG and DeAllende in UL
        Got International level coaches in around him in Larkham and Rowntree


        Most tellingly though, the mothership saw it fit to lash him down to a long contract (there is still 2 years left on it right now). If HQ didn't think he had the capability they wouldn't have rewarded him. The notion a side with our scarcity of test level players is going to suddenly become champions is daft, he needs the likes of Craig Casey, Shane Daly, Fineen, Barron etc to improve on the level we've seen for the last 2 years+.

        We need the bang average local lad with one or two caps to become Irish camp regulars and then up again. IF VanGrann knows he can only coach to a level and went out to the market for coaches who increase the player median level of player from a 4 to a 7 then hes a canny ****er already
        I am the million man.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


          Totally agree on this season. But I think the gap is that Rassie came into a team that was touch and go to come out of groups and looked like a QF team and oversaw its shift back to a Semi Final team.

          Now, obviously over the course of a season that's the bounce of a ball.

          But for better or worse, JVG took over one of the top 4 (ok, probably 6) teams in Europe at a time that it was on an upward trajectory and looking to get back to finals and winning things.


          It's a lot of pressure, and it may not be totally rational or even fair, but I suspect that in the long run JVG's tenure will be judged against people's (largely assumptive) sense that Rassie would have won something.

          To go further, I think Rassie would have won something by now. But clearly that's pure speculation.
          Had we not had the disruption (too small a word I know) of Axel dying, Rassie leaving and taking some top class support with him, I think he might well have won something, but there are many 'ifs' there, and a 'might'. He was a winner before he came to us, and has proven since he left just how good a winner he is- so I think its a reasonable guess. JVG has a better chance this year than any other, coaches there's been a lot of investment, good settling in time, and the academy is beginning to produce a stream of guys with fantastic potential. Also, Saracens are off the radar, and Leinster will - inevitably- decline. There really wont be any excuses if Joey gets fit again and stays so, or JJ builds on last year's consistency and gets to another level....and there's another 'if' or two.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
            Who cares if hes the coach or not?

            look at what he has put in place:

            Prince Joey at 10
            RG and DeAllende in UL
            Got International level coaches in around him in Larkham and Rowntree


            Most tellingly though, the mothership saw it fit to lash him down to a long contract (there is still 2 years left on it right now). If HQ didn't think he had the capability they wouldn't have rewarded him. The notion a side with our scarcity of test level players is going to suddenly become champions is daft, he needs the likes of Craig Casey, Shane Daly, Fineen, Barron etc to improve on the level we've seen for the last 2 years+.

            We need the bang average local lad with one or two caps to become Irish camp regulars and then up again. IF VanGrann knows he can only coach to a level and went out to the market for coaches who increase the player median level of player from a 4 to a 7 then hes a canny ****er already

            Well, I don't know about "cares", but it matters.


            There's a note in the "DOR" piece that basically says last season doesn't count. That he gets a free pass until he had some coaches there.

            If he's the coach, then he doesn't, he's headed into his second full season and expectations shift.

            We've made some good signings. We've got good coaches in place.


            The rub of all of this is that no one, myself included, could tell you in a reasonably concise fashion what a JVG side plays like once all of this is bedded in. The DOR vs Coach debate is just a reflection of that fact really. One school of thought that says it's time to piss or get off the pot, one that says he's only actually starting his real job this season.


            The mothership gave McGahan four seasons. We haven't appointed a coach that's won anything in over a decade, and that was McGahan winning two league titles with the 2008 HEC team while falling apart in Europe. Gaffney treaded water. They made a balls of both the Penney and the Rassie situation in one way or another.

            To put it harshly, Munster rugby has had two successful coaching appointments in 22 years. And they were the same fella getting the job twice.


            So JVG's extension, in the wake of all the disruption around Rassie, is no copper bottomed seal of quality for me.



            Anyway, it's all just bar stool rambling anyway. JVG is in the seat, there's every hope the team will kick on this year under his stewardship.

            If that doesn't happen, I think he's been there long enough to be accountable.
            Last edited by Balla Boy; 6-August-2020, 11:44.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

              Had we not had the disruption (too small a word I know) of Axel dying, Rassie leaving and taking some top class support with him, I think he might well have won something, but there are many 'ifs' there, and a 'might'. He was a winner before he came to us, and has proven since he left just how good a winner he is- so I think its a reasonable guess. JVG has a better chance this year than any other, coaches there's been a lot of investment, good settling in time, and the academy is beginning to produce a stream of guys with fantastic potential. Also, Saracens are off the radar, and Leinster will - inevitably- decline. There really wont be any excuses if Joey gets fit again and stays so, or JJ builds on last year's consistency and gets to another level....and there's another 'if' or two.
              Dont think the players were good enough for the HCup but hopefully the player quality is just about there now. Quality coaches can get you over the line in the Pro 14 like with Scarlets and Connacht - but the step up to the HCUP is too big to bridge without the right personnel.

              The Leinster game is massive as a benchmark. If hunger determines the outcome Leinster will be ate alive.
              ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

              Originally Posted by mr chips
              AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

              Comment


                Well if JVG is not up to it, let's just hope he's lucky, We're overdue some luck.
                Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2021.

                Comment


                  Pics from this week's training - 15 days to go to the Leinster match

                  https://www.munsterrugby.ie/gallery/...anogallery/0/1

                  Comment


                    I know we’ll never have everyone fit, but if we did a probables vs possibles game might look something like this at the moment

                    PROBABLES
                    1. Dave Kilcoyne
                    2. Niall Scannell
                    3. John Ryan
                    4. Jean Kleyn
                    5. RG Snyman
                    6. Tadhg Beirne
                    7. Peter O’Mahony (captain)
                    8. CJ Stander (VC)
                    9. Conor Murray
                    10. Joey Carbery
                    11. Andrew Conway
                    12. Damian De Allende
                    13. Chris Farrell
                    14. Keith Earls
                    15. Mike Haley

                    16. Rhys Marshall, 17. Jeremy Loughman, 18. Stephen Archer, 19. Jack O’Donoghue, 20. Chris Cloete, 21. Craig Casey, 22. JJ Hanrahan, 23. Darren Sweetnam



                    POSSIBLES
                    1. James Cronin
                    2. Kevin O’Byrne
                    3. Keynan Knox
                    4. Fineen Wycherley
                    5. Billy Holland (captain)
                    6. Gavin Coombes
                    7. Tommy O’Donnell (VC)
                    8. Jack O’Sullivan
                    9. Nick McCarthy
                    10. Ben Healy
                    11. Shane Daly
                    12. Rory Scannell
                    13. Dan Goggin
                    14. Calvin Nash
                    15. Matt Gallagher

                    16. Diarmuid Barron, 17. Liam O’Connor, 18. Roman Salanoa, 19. Tom Ahern, 20. John Hodnett, 21. Neil Cronin, 22. Alex McHenry
                    23. Liam Coombes

                    Have I forgotten anyone?
                    \"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Colliniho View Post
                      I know we’ll never have everyone fit, but if we did a probables vs possibles game might look something like this at the moment

                      PROBABLES
                      1. Dave Kilcoyne
                      2. Niall Scannell
                      3. John Ryan
                      4. Jean Kleyn
                      5. RG Snyman
                      6. Tadhg Beirne
                      7. Peter O’Mahony (captain)
                      8. CJ Stander (VC)
                      9. Conor Murray
                      10. Joey Carbery
                      11. Andrew Conway
                      12. Damian De Allende
                      13. Chris Farrell
                      14. Keith Earls
                      15. Mike Haley

                      16. Rhys Marshall, 17. Jeremy Loughman, 18. Stephen Archer, 19. Jack O’Donoghue, 20. Chris Cloete, 21. Craig Casey, 22. JJ Hanrahan, 23. Darren Sweetnam



                      POSSIBLES
                      1. James Cronin
                      2. Kevin O’Byrne
                      3. Keynan Knox
                      4. Fineen Wycherley
                      5. Billy Holland (captain)
                      6. Gavin Coombes
                      7. Tommy O’Donnell (VC)
                      8. Jack O’Sullivan
                      9. Nick McCarthy
                      10. Ben Healy
                      11. Shane Daly
                      12. Rory Scannell
                      13. Dan Goggin
                      14. Calvin Nash
                      15. Matt Gallagher

                      16. Diarmuid Barron, 17. Liam O’Connor, 18. Roman Salanoa, 19. Tom Ahern, 20. John Hodnett, 21. Neil Cronin, 22. Alex McHenry
                      23. Liam Coombes

                      Have I forgotten anyone?
                      I reckon JOD will start at 7. It's between Beirne and JK in the 2nd row. Beirne would compliment Jacko nicely but JK for scrummaging and raw power.
                      When things go wrong, blame McGahan

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by B.A. View Post

                        I reckon JOD will start at 7. It's between Beirne and JK in the 2nd row. Beirne would compliment Jacko nicely but JK for scrummaging and raw power.
                        I think we’ve spent too long with not enough power, I’d pick Snyman and JK if one can scrummage both sides.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                          I think we’ve spent too long with not enough power, I’d pick Snyman and JK if one can scrummage both sides.
                          And discuss the lineout in Afrikaans
                          I am the million man.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                            And discuss the lineout in Afrikaans
                            I dunno. Too many Afrikaan speakers around. On the other hand, nobody understands Langerism.
                            Stand up for the Ulcer men

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by B.A. View Post

                              I reckon JOD will start at 7. It's between Beirne and JK in the 2nd row. Beirne would compliment Jacko nicely but JK for scrummaging and raw power.
                              Beirne's versatility makes him ideal for the bench - but he really deseves a chance to shine.
                              ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                              Originally Posted by mr chips
                              AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                                Beirne's versatility makes him ideal for the bench - but he really deseves a chance to shine.
                                He is too good a player not to start games, while versatility in the bench is great to have, it’s odd how it can go against a player because of uncertainty about what their best position is. For me he doesn’t have the hard as nails qualities I like to see in second rows, while a very good option there, but with POM, CJ and JOD, to name but three, it’s hard to see where he fits in- instead of JOD I suppose.

                                Comment

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