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    Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post

    Murrays injury has also impacted his game style. In particular i think the neck injury took away his breaking game. Prior to the injury i felt he was sniping much more around the base and fixing defenders.


    I agree wholeheartedly with that (great) post- too often system failure seemed to be put down to an individual player's mistake- and of course it suited the coach down to the ground- but that still doesn't, for me, forgive the shortcoming of a fullback not being able to tackle competently. Also the change in Murray's sniping etc does seem to co-incide with the injury, but as I think we still dont know when that happened, what the damage was or indeed what damage there still may be- its hard to be sure. That said, the break since March should have helped him, and when they're all back in games we should be able to see whether he can put that back in his game.

    Comment


      Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post



      I don't buy the hype that Murray can't play a fast paced game i just think he needs to adapt back to it. He played the RWC under Schmidts boshball gameplan and then came back without any introduction to JVG and Larkham new style. He was straight back into gametime with players who were up to speed on the new gameplan in Munster and i don't think we will see what he is capable of until he comes back in August.
      I was watching the Soldier's Field game again the other night. I still can't get over the extent to which the pace of Ireland's game dropped off from around that point. We had the "demented harassment" thing going so well, and accuracy was still high.

      And Murray was in his element.

      "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

      "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


      "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

      Comment


        Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

        I agree wholeheartedly with that (great) post- too often system failure seemed to be put down to an individual player's mistake- and of course it suited the coach down to the ground- but that still doesn't, for me, forgive the shortcoming of a fullback not being able to tackle competently. Also the change in Murray's sniping etc does seem to co-incide with the injury, but as I think we still dont know when that happened, what the damage was or indeed what damage there still may be- its hard to be sure. That said, the break since March should have helped him, and when they're all back in games we should be able to see whether he can put that back in his game.
        I couldn't agree more and i'm really trying to get over my irrational dislike of Kearney but its like going to an AA meeting - one day at a time.

        The parallel between Kearney and Murray in terms of perception and "form" is worth noting though. Lots of criticism for both in the media and by fans yet both do as asked by the coach and continue to get selected because of that.
        \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

        \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

        I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

        Comment


          Quietly hoping we get to see Argybargy Snyman putting Leinstfieldianites back on their arses on a hot dry day in Dublin.

          Might finally give them a fright.
          I am the million man.

          Comment


            Originally posted by FORWARD.... View Post
            Niall Scannell looking very lean and fit in those photos!!!
            Massive season for Scannell. He is probably the most pished off and the one with the most to prove to Ireland. The game(s) against Leinster will be especially massive for him with the young pretender having seemingly displaced him in the rankings lining up against him.

            Gwan Niall.
            ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

            Originally Posted by mr chips
            AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

            Comment


              Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

              Massive season for Scannell. He is probably the most pished off and the one with the most to prove to Ireland. The game(s) against Leinster will be especially massive for him with the young pretender having seemingly displaced him in the rankings lining up against him.

              Gwan Niall.
              Scannell seems to have very solid basics in terms of lineout and scrum. The only thing that i can think of holding him back is being a dynamic ball carrier. its not that he's not physical its just that he doesn't seem to have that acceleration into contact to do damage, break the gainline or commit multiple defenders.
              Munster could possibly accommodate him as a starting hooker at the very top level if Knox or Salanoa can break through and offer that skill set along with Killer and Snyman and Kleyns physicality. Not sure if Ireland will or can be that accommodating.
              \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

              \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

              I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

              Comment


                Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                Massive season for Scannell. He is probably the most pished off and the one with the most to prove to Ireland. The game(s) against Leinster will be especially massive for him with the young pretender having seemingly displaced him in the rankings lining up against him.

                Gwan Niall.
                Huge game alright. Based on Scannel's form last season and if Rhys Marshall is fit I would strongly considering giving them a game each for the first two games before the playoffs. Niall is under big pressure for his jersey this year if Rhys is fit, Kevin O B will have a say also

                Comment


                  Fair play to POM and Killer plus ROG/POC on Guinness PRO14’s Ultimate XV. https://www.pro14.rugby/latest



                  Munster Rugby quartet Dave Kilcoyne, Paul O’Connell, Ronan O’Gara and Peter O’Mahony have been voted onto the Guinness PRO14’s Ultimate XV.

                  The voting for the ultimate XV took place over three weeks with supporters getting the chance to vote for the best player in the respective positions.

                  The nominees for the Ultimate XV were taken from the 13 Guinness PRO14 ‘Dream Teams‘ selected by the media since the 2006-07 season.

                  See the full Ultimate XV selection below.

                  Guinness PRO14 Ultimate XV: Isa Nacewa; Tommy Bowe, Brian O’Driscoll, Gordon D’Arcy, Shane Williams; Ronan O’Gara, Ruan Pienaar; Dave Kilcoyne, Ken Owens, Adam Jones; Paul O’Connell, Alun Wyn Jones; Peter O’Mahony, Justin Tipuric, Jamie Heaslip.
                  "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                  Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                  Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post

                    Murray was asked by Schmidt, Rassie and for a while JVG to do a very specific job at 9. Murray was asked to be the tactician, one of the primary decision makers on the field. The priority was not on speed of service but of minimizing mistakes, ensuring correct decisions were made, making sure players and pods were in place, etc. Schmidt and Rassie both played a possession gameplan which was reliant on heavy carriers repeatedly rotating and battering a team into submission. For both this was very successful but ultimately when a side matched the physicality and the battle upfront was lost then Ireland struggled. Both Schmidt and Rassie relied far more on Murray as a decison maker than media ever gave him credit for. Sexton regularly got the plaudits for it but it was Murray taking on box kicking/clearing duties, it was him deciding when to move the ball wide or keep with the heavy carriers.

                    i have an irrational dislike for Rob Kearney, just something about him that rubs me the wrong way. He's positioning is brilliant and he's supreme under the high ball but he's the ultimate can't pass won't pass and all he ever did for Ireland when he did catch the ball was tuck the ball under his arm and run looking for contact. It drove me nuts especially when we had players who could counter attack so effectively. it took me a long while to get over that irrational dislike, and it wasn't until i realised he was doing those things for two main reasons - 1. because he was damn good at them and 2. because thats exactly what his coaches were asking of him. The fault lies in the coach not the player. Murray is being asked to do certain things and he is doing them. Whilst i agree that central contracts give you additional chances that a provincial contract dont the simple facts are a coach, and specifically one under pressure, is not going to continually pick a player who doesn't do what he is asking him to do, especially one as detail driven as Schmidt.

                    The difference in styles and tempo when other scrum halves are playing for Ireland is most likely down to a tactics from the coach. He wants something different off the bench or an alternative for a certain match. One of my other problems with Kearney was his tackling, his dive, miss tackle, roll to the ground and thump the ground in frustration was a patented move. However most of the situations where Rob missed those tackles was because something went wrong in the system before that point, someone made a linebreak and he was trying to cover. He took the blame and the camera focuses on him as the last line of defence. The coaches will note the mistake as the original one to create the linebreak but TV may focus on the last tackle missed. Murray is the same, if his forwards are getting beaten up or can't clear out the rucks, or reset into heavy carrier pods quick enough then he looks bad as he has to wait at the base of the ruck to deal with slow ball and get people into position or revert to a contestable box kick. It is a huge factor. Murrays injury has also impacted his game style. In particular i think the neck injury took away his breaking game. Prior to the injury i felt he was sniping much more around the base and fixing defenders.

                    I don't buy the hype that Murray can't play a fast paced game i just think he needs to adapt back to it. He played the RWC under Schmidts boshball gameplan and then came back without any introduction to JVG and Larkham new style. He was straight back into gametime with players who were up to speed on the new gameplan in Munster and i don't think we will see what he is capable of until he comes back in August.
                    I agree. Murray was doing what was asked of him. The very same thing has happened to CJ. He went from being the most destructive carrier in Europe to a decent carrier who will also make 18 tackles and last the 80. He lost 6kg after his first season under Schmidt. This isn't me looking to blame Joe, just acknowledging his preference for functional players who stick to the script.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post

                      Scannell seems to have very solid basics in terms of lineout and scrum. The only thing that i can think of holding him back is being a dynamic ball carrier. its not that he's not physical its just that he doesn't seem to have that acceleration into contact to do damage, break the gainline or commit multiple defenders.
                      Munster could possibly accommodate him as a starting hooker at the very top level if Knox or Salanoa can break through and offer that skill set along with Killer and Snyman and Kleyns physicality. Not sure if Ireland will or can be that accommodating.
                      Sometimes his carrying has looked very powerfull - but not often enough - presumably they must do quite a bit of trainnig to get him into the best postion at the right time for carrying, so could see a failry obvious improvement having had plenty of time to work on it - and seeming to have the required power to make greater yards.
                      ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                      Originally Posted by mr chips
                      AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post
                        Fair play to POM and Killer plus ROG/POC on Guinness PRO14’s Ultimate XV. https://www.pro14.rugby/latest



                        Munster Rugby quartet Dave Kilcoyne, Paul O’Connell, Ronan O’Gara and Peter O’Mahony have been voted onto the Guinness PRO14’s Ultimate XV.

                        The voting for the ultimate XV took place over three weeks with supporters getting the chance to vote for the best player in the respective positions.

                        The nominees for the Ultimate XV were taken from the 13 Guinness PRO14 ‘Dream Teams‘ selected by the media since the 2006-07 season.

                        See the full Ultimate XV selection below.

                        Guinness PRO14 Ultimate XV: Isa Nacewa; Tommy Bowe, Brian O’Driscoll, Gordon D’Arcy, Shane Williams; Ronan O’Gara, Ruan Pienaar; Dave Kilcoyne, Ken Owens, Adam Jones; Paul O’Connell, Alun Wyn Jones; Peter O’Mahony, Justin Tipuric, Jamie Heaslip.
                        10 of 15 playing for Irish sides, ... 5 welsh? Hmmm

                        Comment


                          No Scots.
                          When things go wrong, blame McGahan

                          Comment


                            It's a fans poll so always going to biased.

                            Sent from my Redmi Note 9S using Tapatalk

                            \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

                            \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

                            I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

                            Comment




                              The options for each position were drawn from 10 years worth of league "Dream Teams", so lots of people - Sexton, Wallace, Murray, I think Stringer - didn't even appear in the voting options.
                              "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                              "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                              "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                              Comment


                                I'd have Stuart Hogg ahead of Nacewa.
                                When things go wrong, blame McGahan

                                Comment

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