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Munster Squad 2019-2020

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  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
    Harry Byrne 9 appearances at age of 21, Ciaran Frawley 11 appearances when 21
    Ross Byrme at 21 made 20+ appearances for Leinster

    Munster need to play the younger players and give them experience.

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    These figures and those quoted by Mumhain above are pretty compelling, and with the possibility of Rory Scannell also supporting 10, I think we really must go with what we have.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdolphusGrigson
    replied
    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    I hear he's quite the Handy Man
    Apparently he also likes to Stand Up and Fight...

    Leave a comment:


  • ScrummieMan
    replied
    Originally posted by In Joe we trust View Post
    Harry Byrne 9 appearances at age of 21, Ciaran Frawley 11 appearances when 21
    Ross Byrme at 21 made 20+ appearances for Leinster

    Munster need to play the younger players and give them experience.

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
    Joey Carbery 20+ appearances at 21

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by ScrummieMan View Post
    If Munster need an relatively experienced 10 on the cheap.. the excellent James Taylor is available.
    I hear he's quite the Handy Man

    Leave a comment:


  • In Joe we trust
    replied
    Harry Byrne 9 appearances at age of 21, Ciaran Frawley 11 appearances when 21
    Ross Byrme at 21 made 20+ appearances for Leinster

    Munster need to play the younger players and give them experience.

    Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • AdolphusGrigson
    replied
    Originally posted by Mumhain View Post



    It’s pretty hard to tell at this point, but it’s not unheard of for a 21/22 year old guy to be playing that amount of matches. When Flannery started for Ireland at 15 in the 2019 six nations opener, the guy (Marcus Smith) England had at 10 is currently Harlequins’ starting fly-half and has already played 78 matches for them within the period of just over two and a half seasons. I believe all three guys have shown substantial potential to be given the chance, but ultimately we don’t know if a guy is capable of playing 15-20 matches or a similar amount of minutes to Marcus Smith, until he gets the chance.


    I think the proverb “if they are good enough they are old enough” very much applies to the fly-half position in rugby. Owen Farrell and George Ford both regularly played for Saracens/Leicester when they were 19 — a lot younger than Healy and Flannery are now. Current examples of guys who arguably have a similar level of talent to Flannery/Healy and who will be playing at least 10 matches this season include Manu Vunipola and Jacob Umaga in England. Will Harrison and Noah Lolesio are both first choice for their Australian super rugby teams at the same age as Healy/Flannery.


    The conservative or short term decision is to sign a guy, which I get, but a longer term view might be to look at the Bill Johnston example and what happens when you overcrowd a position with too much talent. Do you risk losing a future Ireland international or slow his development, by signing a NIQ guy who may or may not be better than them? If there were only two massive academy prospects at 10, I think I’d be in favour of signing cover, but the fact that there are three and potentially a fourth to be added in the next few months, I don’t think you can add another guy, while giving all the other options the substantial game time that they need to develop.
    With Larkham runnig his eye over the talent and especially him being a 10 then the traditional view that Irish conservatism maybe holding players back unnecessairly is not relevant. Assumption must be, if they dont get game time is that none of them are currently good enough.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mumhain
    replied
    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post




    Are any of the young prospects coming through in a position to make 10-15 starts for us next year - assuming JJ stays fit all year?


    It’s pretty hard to tell at this point, but it’s not unheard of for a 21/22 year old guy to be playing that amount of matches. When Flannery started for Ireland at 15 in the 2019 six nations opener, the guy (Marcus Smith) England had at 10 is currently Harlequins’ starting fly-half and has already played 78 matches for them within the period of just over two and a half seasons. I believe all three guys have shown substantial potential to be given the chance, but ultimately we don’t know if a guy is capable of playing 15-20 matches or a similar amount of minutes to Marcus Smith, until he gets the chance.


    I think the proverb “if they are good enough they are old enough” very much applies to the fly-half position in rugby. Owen Farrell and George Ford both regularly played for Saracens/Leicester when they were 19 — a lot younger than Healy and Flannery are now. Current examples of guys who arguably have a similar level of talent to Flannery/Healy and who will be playing at least 10 matches this season include Manu Vunipola and Jacob Umaga in England. Will Harrison and Noah Lolesio are both first choice for their Australian super rugby teams at the same age as Healy/Flannery.


    The conservative or short term decision is to sign a guy, which I get, but a longer term view might be to look at the Bill Johnston example and what happens when you overcrowd a position with too much talent. Do you risk losing a future Ireland international or slow his development, by signing a NIQ guy who may or may not be better than them? If there were only two massive academy prospects at 10, I think I’d be in favour of signing cover, but the fact that there are three and potentially a fourth to be added in the next few months, I don’t think you can add another guy, while giving all the other options the substantial game time that they need to develop.

    Leave a comment:


  • ScrummieMan
    replied
    If Munster need an relatively experienced 10 on the cheap.. the excellent James Taylor is available.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdolphusGrigson
    replied
    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    These numbers are telling, and lay behind my wondering above whether we were a bit light at 10. 10-15 starts is a tall order, and we need to figure in bench-time too- but maybe split across 2/3 players its possible. The trouble is that if we bring in someone in Healy, Crowley, Flannery or try to convert our erstwhile 12, they all necessarily lose out on playing time, and that stifles development. On the other hand, an injury to JJ, and it looks disastrous. ...Who'd be a coach.
    As mentioned above by Colliniho

    "Whooley will probably be the 10 for the Munster U20’s this year. Really complete all around sportsman I’m told. Probably next in line."

    So that would make 4 good/very goods/excellent prospects at 10 unless there is some spelling mistakes going on?

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


    Just looking at the maths I think we should be looking at injury cover. Between injury and Bill Johnston's departure we've lost three fly halves at various levels, signed none in the other direction. We have prospects coming through, but there's definitely space there imo.


    In 18/19, Tyler made 16 appearances, Hanrahan made 20, Carbery made 15 (that's a mix of starting and bench).

    16/17, when Tyler was fit and flying, he made 27 with only 2 off the bench.



    Are any of the young prospects coming through in a position to make 10-15 starts for us next year - assuming JJ stays fit all year?
    These numbers are telling, and lay behind my wondering above whether we were a bit light at 10. 10-15 starts is a tall order, and we need to figure in bench-time too- but maybe split across 2/3 players its possible. The trouble is that if we bring in someone in Healy, Crowley, Flannery or try to convert our erstwhile 12, they all necessarily lose out on playing time, and that stifles development. On the other hand, an injury to JJ, and it looks disastrous. ...Who'd be a coach.

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

    So you want to take players on a play for pay basis and you’re pretending to be outraged by this?
    OK, my original comment was a cheap shot, and I withdraw it. I'm sure you'd agree we have been extraordinarily unlucky losing out on potential game time from stars/potential stars at 10.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by Chrizzzie View Post

    And even if we would be able to sign a good cover there will be still plenty of chances for our prospects. It's unrealistic to expect JJ to play all games and if he is injured we have an even bigger problem.

    I'm just wondering which player we would be able to lure during these times? (and please do not say Owen Farrell.)

    Just looking at the maths I think we should be looking at injury cover. Between injury and Bill Johnston's departure we've lost three fly halves at various levels, signed none in the other direction. We have prospects coming through, but there's definitely space there imo.


    In 18/19, Tyler made 16 appearances, Hanrahan made 20, Carbery made 15 (that's a mix of starting and bench).

    16/17, when Tyler was fit and flying, he made 27 with only 2 off the bench.



    Are any of the young prospects coming through in a position to make 10-15 starts for us next year - assuming JJ stays fit all year?

    Leave a comment:


  • Chrizzzie
    replied
    Originally posted by Lonstonitis View Post
    Seeing a lot of comments on social media this morning from people who claim they will be outraged if Munster sign a short term outhalf cover. Now I may be wrong here but wouldn't the head coach of the province be better placed to make that decision than someone sitting at home watching youtube highlight clips? We're all excited with the 9 and 10 prospects coming through but throwing them into the deep end has got more risk than reward. If it goes tits up you're mid season trying to find a replacement which I would assume is not easy and also tells the academy players they've f****d up and destroys their confidence.
    And even if we would be able to sign a good cover there will be still plenty of chances for our prospects. It's unrealistic to expect JJ to play all games and if he is injured we have an even bigger problem.

    I'm just wondering which player we would be able to lure during these times? (and please do not say Owen Farrell.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Colliniho
    replied
    Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

    I’m with you there, if the younger lads are thought to be ready, or near to being ready, then I’d prefer we went with that.

    Am too far away from things to know about CIan Whooley- what’s the story there?
    Whooley will probably be the 10 for the Munster U20’s this year. Really complete all around sportsman I’m told. Probably next in line


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • Lonstonitis
    replied
    Seeing a lot of comments on social media this morning from people who claim they will be outraged if Munster sign a short term outhalf cover. Now I may be wrong here but wouldn't the head coach of the province be better placed to make that decision than someone sitting at home watching youtube highlight clips? We're all excited with the 9 and 10 prospects coming through but throwing them into the deep end has got more risk than reward. If it goes tits up you're mid season trying to find a replacement which I would assume is not easy and also tells the academy players they've f****d up and destroys their confidence.

    Leave a comment:

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