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    Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
    Or kick frenchmen, put tacklers back on their holes, call Steve Thompson a fat ugly ****. Generally pop up in games with big plays.

    Would love to see a bit of box office from the current lads. Motms, big plays, tries and insanity.


    I loved that Fla was clearly an absolutely horrible **** to play against. I'd love to see the same from the current options.


    Even though Best showed for years that you could be effective without that, aggravating bollox does seem to be the default setting for the best hookers.




    And totally with you on the mayhem from the back row too. I know you can't get away with as much these days, but I look at the England team with Curry, Underhill, Itoje, Lawes and you think there's a bunch of lads who never miss an opportunity to absolutely smash someone pretty much for the sake of it.

    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

    Comment


      Live rugby next weekend from NZ - yay
      "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

      Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

      Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

      Comment


        Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



        I loved that Fla was clearly an absolutely horrible **** to play against. I'd love to see the same from the current options.


        Even though Best showed for years that you could be effective without that, aggravating bollox does seem to be the default setting for the best hookers.




        And totally with you on the mayhem from the back row too. I know you can't get away with as much these days, but I look at the England team with Curry, Underhill, Itoje, Lawes and you think there's a bunch of lads who never miss an opportunity to absolutely smash someone pretty much for the sake of it.
        It's the message too though. That one of your teammates is going to take it all the way to the edge to win. That makes others realise they've to go there too, it's like a contagious yawn. You see some guy on your team do something mental/unhinged and you think - ****e I'd better get stuck in here, he's after pulverising their openside.

        I am the million man.

        Comment


          Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post

          Back Three. We lack out and out full backs. Haley was our only one last year. Gallagher may give us more depth but as i said above I think we will see more 10's on the field this year and for me that is a great thing because I think Jake Flannery has a huge future ahead of him in this structure. Our wings have been our most potent threat with Earls and Conway leading the way, but our problem has been trying to engineer the play to get them the ball in space or in a one on one. We have plenty of back up with the likes of Nash and Daly but realistically it would take injuries for either to push ahead this season.
          Cheers OTHP, really excited for the season to restart after reading that.

          Has anybody seen much of Gallagher play, is he more in the mold of a Haley (strike runner) or a Flannery (play-maker)?

          Comment


            Originally posted by AwayFromHome View Post

            I remember watching the away Sale match in 2005 when Frankie went off injured and Fla came on (I think it must have been his HEC debut as he was just back from Connacht that season IIRC). Nobody was filled with confidence that this was finally going to be our year and that Fla would have a major role in it - but history books aren't written in advance, they are written by those who grab the ****in' pen (commeth the hour commeth the man).

            That's also why people like ScrummieMan (Bayern, IRUA or whatever name he's using today) telling us what 16 year old will or won't make it as a pro bores the tits off me, Great players aren't born, they are made. Munster has slipped back because too many of the places they used to be made (Coonagh, the Killing Field and Dorradoyle) have been neglected in favour of an over reliance sterile academies.

            ScrummieMan do carry on with the good work....please.
            ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

            Originally Posted by mr chips
            AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

            Comment


              Given IRFU & Munster are identifying the players from a young age who have the potential to be top pros and investing training and S&C in those players, if Munster are not having a strong representation in those irish squads.. it's very unlikely that they will suddenly be "made" on the fields of the AIL and appear in the munster senior squad.

              Comment


                Originally posted by ScrummieMan View Post
                Given IRFU & Munster are identifying the players from a young age who have the potential to be top pros and investing training and S&C in those players, if Munster are not having a strong representation in those irish squads.. it's very unlikely that they will suddenly be "made" on the fields of the AIL and appear in the munster senior squad.
                except there is fairly significant numbers of potential pros playing that wont be seen aa they're not in bigger club and wont be seen by provincial age grade coaches and it's not like leinster schools cup which has 20+ schools between vinnie Murray and main schools cup. It's not so much that they will be "made" in the AIL. They will just be far more likely to be seen/assessed by pro coaches

                Comment


                  Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                  except there is fairly significant numbers of potential pros playing that wont be seen aa they're not in bigger club and wont be seen by provincial age grade coaches and it's not like leinster schools cup which has 20+ schools between vinnie Murray and main schools cup. It's not so much that they will be "made" in the AIL. They will just be far more likely to be seen/assessed by pro coaches
                  Like who? Even talented players from tiny clubs are being spotted and brought into training and development squads. See Ahern, O'Connor, Hodnett etc.

                  If you aren't on munster's radar by u19's then you aren't suddenly going to get the S&C work needed to be a pro rugby player. Maybe a TH prop could emerge at 23/24 but even that looks unlikely.. given recent track record. it's not the 2000's anymore, rugby has moved on.

                  If Munster don't have players in irish underage squads than any hopes of developing more homegrown internationals than they currently have can go out the window.

                  Note: Only 1 munster international in ireland squad this season was homegrown and under-30.
                  Last edited by ScrummieMan; 9-June-2020, 14:53.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by ScrummieMan View Post

                    Like who? Even talented players from tiny clubs are being spotted and brought into training and development squads. See Ahern, O'Connor, Hodnett etc.

                    If you aren't on munster's radar by u19's then you aren't suddenly going to get the S&C work needed to be a pro rugby player. Maybe a TH prop could emerge at 23/24 but even that looks unlikely.. given recent track record. it's not the 2000's anymore, rugby has moved on.

                    If Munster don't have players in irish underage squads than any hopes of developing more homegrown internationals than they currently have can go out the window.

                    Note: Only 1 munster international in ireland squad this season was homegrown and under-30.
                    I agree. It is moving towards the model in most of other professional sport; if you haven't established yourself as an elite level prospect by 19/20 years of age, it probably isn't going to happen just b/c all the specialized training begins at such young ages these days. This is why Leinster are churning out players in the numbers and quality that they do. it isn't just the fact that they've got the higher population and the schools, it is what those schools are doing with the kids who are playing. Even if you become a star in the AIL at 24, 25, you're going to be years behind kids who are younger than you who've been playing in the academy setups for years.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

                      I agree. It is moving towards the model in most of other professional sport; if you haven't established yourself as an elite level prospect by 19/20 years of age, it probably isn't going to happen just b/c all the specialized training begins at such young ages these days. This is why Leinster are churning out players in the numbers and quality that they do. it isn't just the fact that they've got the higher population and the schools, it is what those schools are doing with the kids who are playing. Even if you become a star in the AIL at 24, 25, you're going to be years behind kids who are younger than you who've been playing in the academy setups for years.
                      It is utterly utterly delusional to think there’s a set of potentially professional players in the smaller clubs (over the age of about 16) who Munster aren’t aware of because they are below the radar at smaller clubs. That just isn’t true.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      \"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Colliniho View Post

                        It is utterly utterly delusional to think there’s a set of potentially professional players in the smaller clubs (over the age of about 16) who Munster aren’t aware of because they are below the radar at smaller clubs. That just isn’t true.
                        it really isnt. No it's not. There is plenty in small/weaker clubs who will not be seen playing by development officers etc or know anything about getting into the age grade development system and not br known about. There isnt people viewing most age grade games for kids with potential to play to higher levels.



                        Comment


                          Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                          it really isnt. No it's not. There is plenty in small/weaker clubs who will not be seen playing by development officers etc or know anything about getting into the age grade development system and not br known about. There isnt people viewing most age grade games for kids with potential to play to higher levels.


                          I disagree. These guys look under every rock for talented young players to fill the system with. They'll hear about it if some kid in a small club is tearing up trees every week. In the age of social media and every phone having a video camera, it almost impossible not to. They went out and recruited a pair of kids from SA, you think they don't have feelers out at every club in the province looking for young talent ?

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Finnegan79 View Post

                            I disagree. These guys look under every rock for talented young players to fill the system with. They'll hear about it if some kid in a small club is tearing up trees every week. In the age of social media and every phone having a video camera, it almost impossible not to. They went out and recruited a pair of kids from SA, you think they don't have feelers out at every club in the province looking for young talent ?
                            I dont see that from my experience of going to/being involved in the club game.
                            the development officers or others aren't going to be searching social media for clips. Now they may occasionally look at the odd clip but that isnt going to be turning their heads too much.
                            I really dont think they are putting put feelers in all clubs. Take some of the strong underage clubs. Plenty won huge numbers of age grade titles either provincial or all Ireland as well. If munster were doing as you say then there would bound to be far more from some of these clubs at professional level.

                            Comment


                              Watched a podcast recently with woody, johnny Murphy in it where they discussed the Leinster youth development system, both club and schools .
                              i know all about their schools setup and the “pro rugby player” apprenticeship but i was surprised about the Level of development and effort put into the clubs system.

                              In Leinster they continue to develop the skill set of a large subset of club players after u15s at regional level and then see who develops well after taking part in regional development squads though to U18/19. This is alongside the schools professional setup.

                              in munster they look at the individual players who show promise at u15/u16 and put them into the schools system (if agreeable to parents, player etc). The RDO’s exclusively look at the schools system as they don’t have to/want to give up their weekend to look at club players. A bit lazy really, and This should not be allowed happen.

                              a lot of talk recently about how few limerick players are in the academy (and that isn’t good long term for munster, just like it wouldn’t be good if cork stopped producing players).
                              there are 200+ Limerick players at every age group from u13 to u18. (Clubs and schools)
                              if you cant get at least 0.5%. of this group (schools or clubs) to a higher level every year then I’m afraid you are using the wrong system.(or not doing what you are supposed to be doing)

                              cork & Tipperary in particular seem to be managing this successfully over the last number of years. What’s different in cork/tipp vs limerick ?
                              i don’t blame the clubs or schools in limerick as both sides are arrogant to a fault, i blame the munster rugby development system that clearly isn’t working.

                              RDO’s in limerick are putting all their faith in the limerick schools system to produce munster rugby players.
                              this hasn’t worked out for the last 15 years yet they continue to follow this path oblivious to its failure.

                              Surely JVG is wondering how we are transforming 200+ players at u13 into nothing of use to munster (even at academy level), year after year after year.
                              Munster rugby must do better.

                              BTW I know limerick rugby isn’t the be all and end all regarding munster rugby but if munster rugby cant identify and fix what is happening in limerick Youth rugby development , then if it starts to happen in cork etc, we are fcuked.




                              Comment


                                Originally posted by brightspark View Post
                                Watched a podcast recently with woody, johnny Murphy in it where they discussed the Leinster youth development system, both club and schools .
                                i know all about their schools setup and the “pro rugby player” apprenticeship but i was surprised about the Level of development and effort put into the clubs system.

                                In Leinster they continue to develop the skill set of a large subset of club players after u15s at regional level and then see who develops well after taking part in regional development squads though to U18/19. This is alongside the schools professional setup.

                                in munster they look at the individual players who show promise at u15/u16 and put them into the schools system (if agreeable to parents, player etc). The RDO’s exclusively look at the schools system as they don’t have to/want to give up their weekend to look at club players. A bit lazy really, and This should not be allowed happen.

                                a lot of talk recently about how few limerick players are in the academy (and that isn’t good long term for munster, just like it wouldn’t be good if cork stopped producing players).
                                there are 200+ Limerick players at every age group from u13 to u18. (Clubs and schools)
                                if you cant get at least 0.5%. of this group (schools or clubs) to a higher level every year then I’m afraid you are using the wrong system.(or not doing what you are supposed to be doing)

                                cork & Tipperary in particular seem to be managing this successfully over the last number of years. What’s different in cork/tipp vs limerick ?
                                i don’t blame the clubs or schools in limerick as both sides are arrogant to a fault, i blame the munster rugby development system that clearly isn’t working.

                                RDO’s in limerick are putting all their faith in the limerick schools system to produce munster rugby players.
                                this hasn’t worked out for the last 15 years yet they continue to follow this path oblivious to its failure.

                                Surely JVG is wondering how we are transforming 200+ players at u13 into nothing of use to munster (even at academy level), year after year after year.
                                Munster rugby must do better.

                                BTW I know limerick rugby isn’t the be all and end all regarding munster rugby but if munster rugby cant identify and fix what is happening in limerick Youth rugby development , then if it starts to happen in cork etc, we are fcuked.





                                It's interesting that the structures are there, but it feels like it's the locus of control that needs to shift.

                                It feels like Munster rugby is using the RDO structure to water the garden a bit and then try to spot what comes through, when what you need is a high powered figure attached to either Munster or the IRFU who can crack heads together, leverage funding to reward the right actions and make whatever changes to the architecture are needed to optimise player production.

                                I still have fantasies of someone like Conor O'Shea with a high performance/systems background being brought into the structure with a bag of cash and a big stick and allowed to do whatever was necessary.
                                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

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