Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Munster Squad 2019-2020

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    According to this article, RG Snyman has arrived and is going through his 14 day isolation period

    https://www.the42.ie/de-allende-snym...13821-Jun2020/

    Comment


      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post



      Totally agree in terms of our best pack, OTHP. But does shifting to 7 with Munster limit POM's international chances? Will the Ireland set up want their first choice 6 playing out of position? Does that even have an influence?
      I'll give the politicians answer which is to provide my thoughts without giving a definitive yes or no answer.

      In a way the shirt on the players back is somewhat irrelevant in terms of the backrow because players are given specific tasks. Ideally you want to balance out things like, breakdown security, jackalling, heavy carries, wide carries, lineout, dominant tackling and support/link play. Traditionally some people like to see the blindside be a big hitter with dominant tackles, dynamic heavy carrying ability, provide ruck security and a lineout option. The openside to be quick, provide a jackal threat and be the linkman in open play between the backs and the forwards. The number 8 would be another carrier, hopefully able to carry in the tight and out wide, potentially a lineout option and then have the smarts to read the game and provide a mixture of ruck security, link play and tackling as required.

      POM's skillset and physique don't lend him to that traditional role of 6 or 8 in the modern game and in a way thats why he receives so much criticism from fans and some media at a national level. They expect the blindside to make a significant amount of tackles, big impact carries etc. Thats not POM's game and the way other teams use the no 6 is making the comparison more marked (think Lawes at 6 for England, Fardy for Leinster). POM's strengths lie in his leadership, smarts, breakdown security, wide carries and explosive lineout ability.

      With Ireland the openside role has seen the likes of Wally, Sean O'Brien and now Leavy provide not only the traditional strengths of an openside but also the added dynamic carrying. This has allowed the likes of Quinny and POM to be accommodated at 6. Leavy IMO was a key reason why Ireland failed so badly in the RWC year just gone. The balance of the back row with POM, VDF and CJ meant that too much of the carrying and dominant tackles sat with CJ. Under Joe the possession game was absolute key. His tactics revolved around going through enough phases with big heavy carriers until the defence couldn't reset in time and Ireland either went round or over them. Taking Leavy out of the rotation of potential carriers and replacing with VDF isn't going to help that.

      I actually think we've seen the idea of POM moving to 7 looked at by Farrell already although it was when the game was lost in Twickenham earlier this year. By swapping Doris and VDF and having POM and CJ still on the pitch I believe he corrected the balance. Admittedly this was after Lawes was taken off, England we well ahead and Ireland started to play with a bit more freedom.

      For Munster one of the best defensive performances I ever saw was against Exeter in Thomond Park in Jan 2019. Exeter play a similar possession style game to the likes of Leinster and Saracens but perhaps with the size and big names to match them. POM and Beirne played in tandem that night and tormented Exeter. They split the field and took a side each, hanging just behind the defensive line following the ball as Exeter kept hold of the ball. They even managed to fake entering the breakdown at times to make Exeter commit more numbers to that breakdown then step back and wait for the next ruck to attack when Exeter had less numbers available to clean.

      Munster could beat Exeter that night because of the Thomond factor and they matched them physically but against Leinster, Racing or Saracens we struggle with size and a lack of dynamic carriers to provide momentum with ball in hand. By adding Snyman and De Allende Munster have somewhat addressed that and if we can keep the same defensive strategy i think we can really match the top boys.

      I also think there is the ability to pick Wycherley at 6 as he develops to just hit and clean rucks for 50 mins and create clean quick ruck ball before bringing on Beirne to reek havoc in open play with 30 mins to go.

      At Ireland level if Leavy does come back to full fitness and form I see him be the automatic starter at 7 and that then allows POM to wear 6 but keep doing what he does. If Leavy isn't available then POM to 7 and another carrier/hitter in the back row makes sense. Those calling for a Lions test captain to be dropped because they don't like his ESPN stats on carrying or tackling probably don't know enough about the game to be worth listening to.
      \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

      \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

      I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

      Comment


        While Snyman is the one grabbing the headlines in terms of what he's been doing in Japan, i think it will be De Allande that will impress most during his time at Munster. No one is doubting his physicality with or without the ball its his passing ability that seems to be very underrated. Also i think Snyman's impact may not be recognised for 4 or 5 years when the like Ahern, Kelly and O'Connor hopefully come through into the from the academy/underage system. Ahern in particular looks to be very similar to Snymanand if he can learn from him we could have a long term world class second row on our hands for the next decade.
        \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

        \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

        I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

        Comment


          Possible Munster Academy announcement this week

          Prop
          James French(Bandon/UCC) - Y3
          Josh Wycherley(Roscrea/Young Munster) - Y3
          Mark Donnelly(CBC/Garryowen) - Y1

          Hooker
          Diarmuid Barron(Rockwell/Garryowen) - Y3
          Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown/Shannon) - Y3
          Scott Buckley(CBC/UCC) - Y1

          Lock
          Thomas Ahern(Waterpark RFC/Shannon) - Y3
          Paddy Kelly(St. Munchins/Young Munster) - Y2
          Eoin O'Connor(Waterpark RFC/Garryowen) - Y2

          Backrow
          Jack Daly(Castleisland RFC/Garryowen) - Y3
          John Hodnett(Clonakilty RFC/UCC) - Y2
          Alex Kendellan(PBC) - Y1

          Scrumhalf

          Outhalf
          Jake Flannery(Rockwell/Shannon) - Y2
          Ben Healy(Glenstal/Garryowen) - Y3
          Jack Crowley(Bandon/Cork Con) - Y1

          Outside Backs
          Sean French(PBC/Cork Con) - Y3
          Jonathan Wren(PBC/Cork Con) - Y3
          Harry O'Riordan(CBC Cork/UCC) - Y1

          Comment


            Originally posted by breakfast roll View Post
            The pack is very strong compared to other years.
            Back row - Do people think POM could do a job consistently at 7 for Munster versus the better teams in the European Cup? I still think JOD offers the best option with Hodnett making a push next year.
            Second Row - If RGS starts I think Kleyn will do well to hold off Wycherley. Lots of progress from him especially since Xmas.
            RGS, Wycherley, Beirne, CJ, POM/JOD would be a match for anyone.
            Front row - Still think the front row lacks dynamism outside of Killer. Loughman has been a standout find though - his handling gives Munster something different.
            Hopefully Knox / Salanoa can make a push at THP. Ryan, archer excel at the fundamentals though. Someone really needs to step up at hooker and make a push for intl honours.
            I'm not so sure about Loughman to be honest. While he looked great slinging the ball around against a gash Ospreys team, his scrummaging seems fairly average. I still think he is well behind Cronin.
            When things go wrong, blame McGahan

            Comment


              Originally posted by ScrummieMan View Post
              Possible Munster Academy announcement this week

              Prop
              James French(Bandon/UCC) - Y3
              Josh Wycherley(Roscrea/Young Munster) - Y3
              Mark Donnelly(CBC/Garryowen) - Y1

              Hooker
              Diarmuid Barron(Rockwell/Garryowen) - Y3
              Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown/Shannon) - Y3
              Scott Buckley(CBC/UCC) - Y1

              Lock
              Thomas Ahern(Waterpark RFC/Shannon) - Y3
              Paddy Kelly(St. Munchins/Young Munster) - Y2
              Eoin O'Connor(Waterpark RFC/Garryowen) - Y2

              Backrow
              Jack Daly(Castleisland RFC/Garryowen) - Y3
              John Hodnett(Clonakilty RFC/UCC) - Y2
              Alex Kendellan(PBC) - Y1

              Scrumhalf

              Outhalf
              Jake Flannery(Rockwell/Shannon) - Y2
              Ben Healy(Glenstal/Garryowen) - Y3
              Jack Crowley(Bandon/Cork Con) - Y1

              Outside Backs
              Sean French(PBC/Cork Con) - Y3
              Jonathan Wren(PBC/Cork Con) - Y3
              Harry O'Riordan(CBC Cork/UCC) - Y1

              Anyone with more knowledge than me know much on the hookers? I think there's a real gap in the hooker depth chart for a big ball carrying hooker that we just don't have at the moment.
              \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

              \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

              I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

              Comment


                Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post


                Anyone with more knowledge than me know much on the hookers? I think there's a real gap in the hooker depth chart for a big ball carrying hooker that we just don't have at the moment.
                Was there a Keith Wood junior coming along at some age grade - or has that not come to fruition or is he not a hooker?
                ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                Originally Posted by mr chips
                AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

                Comment


                  Originally posted by AdolphusGrigson View Post

                  Was there a Keith Wood junior coming along at some age grade - or has that not come to fruition or is he not a hooker?
                  one son is a munster u18 schools outhalf and the other son is a JCT scrumhalf.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by overthehillprop View Post


                    At Ireland level if Leavy does come back to full fitness and form I see him be the automatic starter at 7 and that then allows POM to wear 6 but keep doing what he does. If Leavy isn't available then POM to 7 and another carrier/hitter in the back row makes sense. Those calling for a Lions test captain to be dropped because they don't like his ESPN stats on carrying or tackling probably don't know enough about the game to be worth listening to.
                    A really good analysis of where we are, and you can imagine the wails from Dubland if the Munster openside is playing blindside for Ireland ahead of one of their lads. I do however live in the eternal hope that, fitness and game plan allowing, TOD will have the season I've always thought he had in him. Looking back on the Glasgow game after Axle's death, he was unplayable that day.

                    I'm expecting big things from both Saffers. Not just because of their level and capability, but in those two roles in particular.

                    Top sides have known what to do to us for years now - deny us quick ball and go forward in the pack, and then blitz the life out of us in the midfield.

                    That has three elements for me. First, the obvious question around explosive carriers. We run out of them too fast. This then leads to slow ball to the 12 who has few options, or to a box kick.


                    The one that doesn't get enough attention for me though is the level of aggression at the breakdown. When our runners do get stopped, we seem to get snagged up relatively easily and smothered. I think one of the biggest impacts for us would be a real escalation in the aggression of our clear. Leinster are much more aggressive and effective there, with 2/3 men regularly winning ball where we get stopped with 4 or 5, because they're blowing men out the back where we seem to ruck to the ball and then look to protect or seal off.



                    Hopefully Snyman can add to the carrier options, but I'm also hoping that he brings insane aggression to the ruck, raises that pitch for others and we become faster and more efficient in our recycle, leaving more carrier options in turn.


                    Ultimately, we have to get past the situation we have regularly with the likes of Leinster and Sarries not only stop us, but then seem to have time for a bit of a chat, wander about and reset by the time we're ready to go again.


                    And the two signings can give us more explosive carrying, clearing, and options for trucking up crap ball in midfield when we do get stuck.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                      A really good analysis of where we are, and you can imagine the wails from Dubland if the Munster openside is playing blindside for Ireland ahead of one of their lads. I do however live in the eternal hope that, fitness and game plan allowing, TOD will have the season I've always thought he had in him. Looking back on the Glasgow game after Axle's death, he was unplayable that day.

                      I'm expecting big things from both Saffers. Not just because of their level and capability, but in those two roles in particular.

                      Top sides have known what to do to us for years now - deny us quick ball and go forward in the pack, and then blitz the life out of us in the midfield.

                      That has three elements for me. First, the obvious question around explosive carriers. We run out of them too fast. This then leads to slow ball to the 12 who has few options, or to a box kick.


                      The one that doesn't get enough attention for me though is the level of aggression at the breakdown. When our runners do get stopped, we seem to get snagged up relatively easily and smothered. I think one of the biggest impacts for us would be a real escalation in the aggression of our clear. Leinster are much more aggressive and effective there, with 2/3 men regularly winning ball where we get stopped with 4 or 5, because they're blowing men out the back where we seem to ruck to the ball and then look to protect or seal off.



                      Hopefully Snyman can add to the carrier options, but I'm also hoping that he brings insane aggression to the ruck, raises that pitch for others and we become faster and more efficient in our recycle, leaving more carrier options in turn.


                      Ultimately, we have to get past the situation we have regularly with the likes of Leinster and Sarries not only stop us, but then seem to have time for a bit of a chat, wander about and reset by the time we're ready to go again.


                      And the two signings can give us more explosive carrying, clearing, and options for trucking up crap ball in midfield when we do get stuck.
                      Agree totally on the 3 items that need to improve.

                      Trucking up slow slow ball at times has become too more of committee meeting at the breakdown. Ball isn't clean, scrum half waves his arms at the ref, another player or two goes in to move bodies, the scrum half organises a pod to receive the slow ball and mean while the defence has managed to reset, have a cup of tea and read the paper. As you said we need to be more clinical and efficient in our clean outs. Either the first man or two needs to blow defenders beyond the gain line or we need to find a way to get the ball moving quickly. The new focus on laws in the NZ Super Rugby trial could help. Leinster and Racing are two teams who are brilliant at blocking the clearing lanes. The tacklers roll back out in the way of the players trying to clean the ruck and prevent them from clearing properly. Its not much but can cause a player to change footing/steps or move slightly that he can't hit the ruck at the point he wanted. The new law focus only allows the tackler to roll out sideways towards the sideline not back into the clearing lane. It may take him a while to establish himself but Wycherley as a 6 could be designed for that role. The man was born to hit rucks and plough through lads. He puts his head where others fear to out their shoes.

                      If we can't get clean quick ball then we need to develop other ways of solving rather than slowing down play to a standstill. i think we are trying to do that by pick and goes and also quick resets that may loose ground. For those resets we need the likes of Ryan, Archer, Scannell etc (the bigger non dynamic carriers) to take the ball with support close to the original ruck and just go to ground as soon as the defender makes contact. Making ground isn't the priority its a quick recycle without committing any of our dynamic carriers or more men to the original clear out. The Scarlets were very good and clever at doing this to allow a reset on turnover ball and overstacking the field to their advantage.

                      I completely agree on the heavy carry rotation numbers. Something i have been on about for quite a while. De Allende and Snyman will certainly help with that but i also think it may free up Kleyn to do more clearing out rather than heavy carries if the situation allows. His frame and power allows a powerful clean.
                      \"God gave me the talent but the forwards gave me the ball\" - Jannie De Beer

                      \"I hesitate to use words like spiritual or religious, but to see what rugby means to Munster people is very moving\" Shaun Payne

                      I look back on 2008 at the Millennium Stadium as the highlight of my career because, although being capped by New Zealand and playing for the All Blacks was fantastic, this was special. - Doug Howlett

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by ScrummieMan View Post
                        Possible Munster Academy announcement this week

                        Prop
                        James French(Bandon/UCC) - Y3
                        Josh Wycherley(Roscrea/Young Munster) - Y3
                        Mark Donnelly(CBC/Garryowen) - Y1

                        Hooker
                        Diarmuid Barron(Rockwell/Garryowen) - Y3
                        Eoghan Clarke(CBC Monkstown/Shannon) - Y3
                        Scott Buckley(CBC/UCC) - Y1

                        Lock
                        Thomas Ahern(Waterpark RFC/Shannon) - Y3
                        Paddy Kelly(St. Munchins/Young Munster) - Y2
                        Eoin O'Connor(Waterpark RFC/Garryowen) - Y2

                        Backrow
                        Jack Daly(Castleisland RFC/Garryowen) - Y3
                        John Hodnett(Clonakilty RFC/UCC) - Y2
                        Alex Kendellan(PBC) - Y1

                        Scrumhalf

                        Outhalf
                        Jake Flannery(Rockwell/Shannon) - Y2
                        Ben Healy(Glenstal/Garryowen) - Y3
                        Jack Crowley(Bandon/Cork Con) - Y1

                        Outside Backs
                        Sean French(PBC/Cork Con) - Y3
                        Jonathan Wren(PBC/Cork Con) - Y3
                        Harry O'Riordan(CBC Cork/UCC) - Y1
                        Any thoughts on potential academy candidates not from Cork?


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        \"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Colliniho View Post

                          Any thoughts on potential academy candidates not from Cork?


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          Not many options this year..

                          Daniel Okeke(Ard Scoil Ris) is raw and doing another season in the sub-academy.
                          Alan Flannery(Rockwell) is going into the sub-academy I believe.

                          Someone like Ethan Coughlan(Ennis) will likely going into sub-academy due to his youth.

                          Conor Phillips(Crescent) maybe would have a chance, but don't think he got back playing post-injury and now covid.

                          Maybe Jack Delaney(Crescent), but think he needs to prove it at u20 level, so sub academy again.

                          Overwhelming number of players coming through system are from cork, either city or county.
                          Last edited by ScrummieMan; 4-June-2020, 14:11.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by ScrummieMan View Post

                            Not many options this year..

                            Daniel Okeke(Ard Scoil Ris) is raw and doing another season in the sub-academy.
                            Alan Flannery(Rockwell) is going into the sub-academy I believe.

                            Someone like Ethan Coughlan(Ennis) will likely going into sub-academy due to his youth.

                            Conor Phillips(Crescent) maybe would have a chance, but don't think he got back playing post-injury and now covid.

                            Maybe Jack Delaney(Crescent), but think he needs to prove it at u20 level.
                            Did Jack finish his leaving this year?
                            Between him and Whooley, 2 very good outhalves for next years U20’s


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            \"In a world gone mad, only a lunatic is truly insane\"

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Lonstonitis View Post

                              I personally can't see Wycherley pushing Kleyn out of the squad easily. Before injury this season Kleyn was in incredible form and I reckon would have made the Ireland squad again. People complained that he didn't make impacts in big games but in December was outstanding against Saracens. Snyman and Kleyn in the second row for me with a constant rotation in the backrow of

                              6: Beirne, Wycherley, POM, O'Donnell
                              7. JOD, O'Donnell, Cloete, Hodnett, POM
                              8. Stander, O'Sullivan

                              Am I missing anyone?
                              Like Fineen as a player, but would take a lot to push Kleyn. Since his Ireland call up, he seems to me to have added an authority to his game that he was lacking. a real standout against Saracens, and with the injury and Covid, and now the added stimulus of Snyman, I'm expecting great things of him next season. I'd still expect the Wych to get good game time- probably off the bench, where his versatility and aggression will come into its own. Then his task will be to take the starting jersey- its not beyond him, but a heck of a mountain to climb.

                              Comment


                                No last year, he was out of school this season, don't think Delaney is viewed as a pro 10 fwiw.

                                Doubt he will be involved with 20's as a 10. Will be between Corkery, Forde and Whooley.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X