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Semi Final - Leinster v Munster

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    Originally posted by lawrence View Post
    The intriguing thing about this game is that our season has already been deemed a failure, “lost another semi and the coaching ticket in disarray” has been the narrative for the last while.

    The season isn’t over, we can beat Leinster and make a final, make a lot of people eat a lot of words.
    I think the reality (and it's a grim one) is that very few people really think we will.
    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

    Comment


      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

      I think the reality (and it's a grim one) is that very few people really think we will.
      As long as the 23 that matter think otherwise.

      Comment


        Originally posted by lawrence View Post
        The intriguing thing about this game is that our season has already been deemed a failure, “lost another semi and the coaching ticket in disarray” has been the narrative for the last while.

        The season isn’t over, we can beat Leinster and make a final, make a lot of people eat a lot of words.
        For me loosing to Leinster won't be a failure itself but the way we loose will say much more.

        Nonetheless I also see a chance for us to win this game. Definitely in comparison to last year and how close we came

        Comment


          Will be good to see JOD back on the pitch here ,same stage same fixture last year he was carried off .expecting a similar battle this year ,it will be spikey id say
          Still there's a light I hold before me
          You're the measure of my dreams
          The measure of my dreams.

          Comment


            I hope they’ve been keeping Fineen in a cage the past week, poking him with sticks and feeding him nothing but barbed wire and pictures of Johnny Sexton.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

              I think the reality (and it's a grim one) is that very few people really think we will.
              I don't know. I was fairly confident before the two lads walked and when I thought that Joey and Keith would be back.

              But Van Graan name checked Joey's importance to "Ireland and Munster" in that order. And then Keith looks way off returning.

              It seems that something is amiss.

              But I'd expect the team we put out to capable of doing a job.
              Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

              Comment


                Originally posted by rathbaner View Post

                I don't know. I was fairly confident before the two lads walked and when I thought that Joey and Keith would be back.

                But Van Graan name checked Joey's importance to "Ireland and Munster" in that order. And then Keith looks way off returning.

                It seems that something is amiss.

                But I'd expect the team we put out to capable of doing a job.

                It's doing that job against the second best team in Europe, away from home. There's clearly tension in the set up, and key players out injured.

                I'll hope, as always, but I have less and less belief in the current structure with every week that passes. Another year of starting over next year.

                "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


                  It's doing that job against the second best team in Europe, away from home. There's clearly tension in the set up, and key players out injured.

                  I'll hope, as always, but I have less and less belief in the current structure with every week that passes. Another year of starting over next year.
                  This team has had three successive semi finals - they have reached their plateau. Next year there may well need to be a shake-up in playing personnel.

                  We need to fast track youth in. Our core (POM, CM, CJ, KE) are past their peak.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                    This team has had three successive semi finals - they have reached their plateau. Next year there may well need to be a shake-up in playing personnel.

                    We need to fast track youth in. Our core (POM, CM, CJ, KE) are past their peak.
                    I think you can still build a successful team around that core for the next 2-3 seasons. But it needs a massive change in game plan.
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post


                      It's doing that job against the second best team in Europe, away from home. There's clearly tension in the set up, and key players out injured.

                      I'll hope, as always, but I have less and less belief in the current structure with every week that passes. Another year of starting over next year.
                      I think that in respect of ‘the current structure’ it really is too soon to tell, two key individuals in the coaching set up will have to be replaced- whether these unexpected vacancies cause a change in what we are looking for, attack-wise, remains to be seen. Depending on what we bring is, next year could look very exciting, or very doubtful. If JVG doesn’t know what he’s looking by now then we should be worried, about him too, but if he knows what he wants, and gets it, the future might look very bright, he now has the opportunity, and presumably money, to make some dramatic back room changes.

                      will join you in hoping next week...if they react to their sarries defeat as we did, we might just be in with a decent shout.

                      Comment


                        I’m optimistic about this game. I’ve really felt Leinster have been poor since about February at least. It will depend on where our heads are at

                        The papers and media may perpetuate the notion that Leinster were marginally outplayed yesterday, but the reality is they weren’t any better than Munster
                        "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                        Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                        Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                          I think that in respect of ‘the current structure’ it really is too soon to tell, two key individuals in the coaching set up will have to be replaced- whether these unexpected vacancies cause a change in what we are looking for, attack-wise, remains to be seen. Depending on what we bring is, next year could look very exciting, or very doubtful. If JVG doesn’t know what he’s looking by now then we should be worried, about him too, but if he knows what he wants, and gets it, the future might look very bright, he now has the opportunity, and presumably money, to make some dramatic back room changes.

                          will join you in hoping next week...if they react to their sarries defeat as we did, we might just be in with a decent shout.
                          Unless there's an awful lot of spin going on, offering contracts to two existing members of staff you want and expect to keep and having them both decline is a very bad thing indeed, I think.

                          I think he's achieved the sum of nothing this year. There's no sign of a game plan, no sign of a playing philosophy. None of our young players have progressed significantly.

                          He has the close season to sort out his coaching ticket, but that needs to hit the ground running. We'll know by Christmas I think if the next two years are a write off.
                          "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                          "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                          "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                            Unless there's an awful lot of spin going on, offering contracts to two existing members of staff you want and expect to keep and having them both decline is a very bad thing indeed, I think.

                            I think he's achieved the sum of nothing this year. There's no sign of a game plan, no sign of a playing philosophy. None of our young players have progressed significantly.

                            He has the close season to sort out his coaching ticket, but that needs to hit the ground running. We'll know by Christmas I think if the next two years are a write off.
                            I think you’re being harsh. We have no idea why the lads are leaving. It’s not necessarily all about JVG. For all we know they left because the players had lost faith in them (see Farrell’s recent interview).

                            He recruited Beirne and Carbery, both of whom have been happy enough with him to sign contract extensions already.

                            Fineen and Goggin have made good progress this year. Loughman is now a regular Pro14 starter. Cronin is looking promising and a few more like SOC, Coombes and Daly are getting some games. He even gave Casey a cap, albeit due to last minute injury, which can’t have hurt our efforts to fend off other teams’ interest. That’s not a particularly bad record of player development.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post
                              Another year of starting over next year.
                              Pro14 teams usually suffer in Europe after a RWC because of the heavy contribution to the national sides, so next season may be written off regardless of shenanigans in the Munster set up.
                              ​​​​​​
                              But the first three months of it we'll be without Killer, Scannell, Ryan, POM, CJ, Murray, Carbery Earls, Farrell, and possibly Beirne & Conway.

                              We've had the biggest player clear out in years too, I'm not sure but IIRC 8 players have retired or moved on from Munster's books.

                              ​​​​​With three or four new coaches on board and a few of the youngsters stepping up too it's inevitable we'll see significant changes, but success may be less likely come what may.

                              You'd have to think that the coaches have identified particular weaknesses in the player roster and that the big reduction in the wage bill may be pointing to one or two more signings post RWC.


                              And in any case we're still in year one of what's likely to be a three year process.
                              Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post
                                I’m optimistic about this game. I’ve really felt Leinster have been poor since about February at least. It will depend on where our heads are at

                                The papers and media may perpetuate the notion that Leinster were marginally outplayed yesterday, but the reality is they weren’t any better than Munster
                                I have to agree. The only real scoring threat they had in the second half was when Garces penalized Saracens twice in a row and Leinster kicked it almost all the way down the pitch. Other than that, their attack wasn't anything special, and the defense was barely hanging on around the try line after carries that resulted in positive yardage. Maybe this is red-tinted, but I thought that Munster made them work a bit harder for their yards over the first 55-60 minutes of the semi than Leinster did yesterday.

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