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Irish Indo Hatchet Job - Ouch

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    #61
    Originally posted by Waterfordlad View Post
    I won’t spiral off the boo/cheer discussion again. We all heard what we heard
    What does it matter now anyway?

    "They’re the benchmark that everyone else has to raise their game to meet." Alan Quinlan on Leinster

    Comment


      #62
      I don't like McKenna but he occasionally gets things right and there were a couple of good points buried in there beneath the smug mock anger.

      The Indo pay money for the naming rights to Musgrave Park. I don't know why anybody thinks that would mean they wouldn't publish an article critical of Munster.

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
        I don't like McKenna but he occasionally gets things right and there were a couple of good points buried in there beneath the smug mock anger.

        The Indo pay money for the naming rights to Musgrave Park. I don't know why anybody thinks that would mean they wouldn't publish an article critical of Munster.
        I think that article was more than critical it was scurrilous!

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by POPEYE View Post
          I think that article was more than critical it was scurrilous!
          It's obviously designed to be provocative - MacKenna is a polemicist - but there are kernels of truth I think. Look, I'm obviously a Leinster fan but I post here by choice because I enjoy the company of and discussion with Munsterfans more than Leinsterfans, and I think I slag off Leinster more than most, so I can at least say I'm as cynical about my own team as I am about yours.

          I mean, Munster's response to the pitch invader was comically laughable, saying he might have been a Saracens fan in a Munster shirt. Like, I am behind the fella who stuck it to Vunipola 100% and would back any Munster fan who booed the creepy little ****, but the organisation didn't exactly back the supporters. And the stuff over the pressure on Axel and booing Keatley is right (and I should disclose I unwittingly posted a photo on here that was offensive to people who loved Foley, and I still feel bad about the hurt that cuased)/

          But in general, and it's a drum I've banged on here for the last couple of years, rugby journalism in this country is so rarely critical of anything. And you even find it on here (and I'm sure it's the same with all the provinces) where people will rip apart coaches and players on the forum but once somebody says something much milder in a newspaper the wagpons will circle.

          My main point though was people who think Munster should disassociate with the Indo based on this article or other articles. As if the club should hand back money that it needs to pay players and be competitive on the pitch just to ensure they get only positive coverage. It's bizarre.

          Comment


            #65
            Another hatchet job here in the English Times: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/t...sues-fwfpqd9kn

            Comment


              #66
              Paywall.

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post

                My main point though was people who think Munster should disassociate with the Indo based on this article or other articles. As if the club should hand back money that it needs to pay players and be competitive on the pitch just to ensure they get only positive coverage. It's bizarre.
                My point was that Munster Rugby should point out to its Sponsors that the lofty standards to which they and the Sponsors aspire were being compromised by the pathetic attempt at journalistic competence in the article in question.

                I don't have a problem with well written, well sourced, constructive criticism. In my opinion, journalists can write anything they like as long as what is written is backed up by reasoned argument and/or reputable sources.

                The article in question meets neither criterion.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Anne Harris (former Editor of the Sunday Indo) puts the boot in

                  "INM opted for click-based journalism, thereby bringing it downmarket."

                  " when you bring a product downmarket it is almost impossible to bring it back up."

                  "It is undoubtedly the intention of Mediahuis to introduce a paywall. But journalistic quality is the sine qua non of a pay wall and that will prove extremely difficult to achieve in an organisation which has not prioritised talent for some years now"

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Hi Im looking for 2 Tickets for the Final in Newcastle if anyone has any they looking to offload cheers !

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                      I mean, Munster's response to the pitch invader was comically laughable, saying he might have been a Saracens fan in a Munster shirt. .
                      I'm pretty sure that was ROG on OTB rather than MR. MR said that he wasn't a member of the MRSC.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Wallyman View Post

                        I'm pretty sure that was ROG on OTB rather than MR. MR said that he wasn't a member of the MRSC.
                        No, it was the Munster PRO during van Graan's post-match press conference who claimed it might have been a Saracens fan in a Munster shirt.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          I don't think Mr Slippers should be overly criticised for having a go at Billy. I know it's not etiquette, or the "proper" way of protesting. But Billy can't do what he did and think there'd be no blowback.
                          Remember, at least some of his team or coaching mates are gay, have gay relatives or gay children. And he encourages contempt for them.

                          He's a toerag, the fact that no one is prepared to call him out on it makes it worse IMHO.

                          So, from me at least, Well done Mr Slippers.
                          Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                            It's obviously designed to be provocative - MacKenna is a polemicist - but there are kernels of truth I think. Look, I'm obviously a Leinster fan but I post here by choice because I enjoy the company of and discussion with Munsterfans more than Leinsterfans, and I think I slag off Leinster more than most, so I can at least say I'm as cynical about my own team as I am about yours.

                            I mean, Munster's response to the pitch invader was comically laughable, saying he might have been a Saracens fan in a Munster shirt. Like, I am behind the fella who stuck it to Vunipola 100% and would back any Munster fan who booed the creepy little ****, but the organisation didn't exactly back the supporters. And the stuff over the pressure on Axel and booing Keatley is right (and I should disclose I unwittingly posted a photo on here that was offensive to people who loved Foley, and I still feel bad about the hurt that cuased)/

                            But in general, and it's a drum I've banged on here for the last couple of years, rugby journalism in this country is so rarely critical of anything. And you even find it on here (and I'm sure it's the same with all the provinces) where people will rip apart coaches and players on the forum but once somebody says something much milder in a newspaper the wagpons will circle.

                            My main point though was people who think Munster should disassociate with the Indo based on this article or other articles. As if the club should hand back money that it needs to pay players and be competitive on the pitch just to ensure they get only positive coverage. It's bizarre.


                            That's not the level it works on though. The issue is that he's pieced together a series of disparate events over a number of years and cobbled them into a retrospective narrative that just doesn't hold water.

                            Yes, there was pressure on Axel, and in retrospect it's easy (and right) to say that the perspective of the time seems like folly now. But go to English's book on When Munster Beat the All Blacks and you'll see Locky talking about the fact that what made Limerick rugby what it was was the fact that players would get called in the club house if they weren't delivering. ROG talked before the HEC final about living and working among "our people" and being able to look them in the eye.

                            There's always a balance, but there's never been some halcyon age in which under-performing players and coaches were given unequivocal support, and that pressure cooker was lauded as a strength of the provincial game on several occasions.

                            I'm not defending what happened to Keatley or to Axle. But the writers diagnosis is severely off. If anything, I think those periods of excessive criticism were sparked at least in part by the mythologising of the Munster crowd as being a knowledgeable and demanding support base that wouldn't hesitate to call a spade a spade.

                            And none of that has anything at all to do with the response to Vunipola, and the crowd booing him has nothing to do with one eejit deciding to be an eejit.

                            He's weaving gossamer into ****e.
                            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Ewan must be great crack on a night out. A ray of sunshine. Another good reason not to buy that rag.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by Piquet View Post

                                My point was that Munster Rugby should point out to its Sponsors that the lofty standards to which they and the Sponsors aspire were being compromised by the pathetic attempt at journalistic competence in the article in question.

                                I don't have a problem with well written, well sourced, constructive criticism. In my opinion, journalists can write anything they like as long as what is written is backed up by reasoned argument and/or reputable sources.

                                The article in question meets neither criterion.
                                Yeah, but Munster aren't the ones with the power in this relationship. INM sponsor money and pay considerable money for the privilege. If Munster want a certain type of coverage they're not in a position to demand it, and the sponsorship money weakens their position to do so.

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