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    #61
    Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
    Thanks for all the comments, constructive/reasonable debate. Just a few points:-
    My understanding is that the IRFU don't control the 'Home Country Venue' it's the EPCR & also the EPCR get the gate receipts with the competing teams & IRFU getting a fixed sum - am I correct? If so, no major financial loss to the IRFU if PUC was sanctioned by the EPCR at Munster Rugby's request.

    Secondly, The 2018 edition of the GAA constitution and rules has amended Rule 5.1 (Rule 42) to include the following note:
    "Central council has the power to authorise the use of Croke Park and other Stadia for games in the Rugby World Cup 2027, if this Tournament is staged in Ireland".
    Basically under Rule 5.1 the GAA Central Council can at any time sanction the use of all GAA grounds for other sports.
    The IRFU gets the money for renting the Aviva as well. Or half of it anyway.

    Comment


      #62
      Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
      Thanks for all the comments, constructive/reasonable debate. Just a few points:-
      My understanding is that the IRFU don't control the 'Home Country Venue' it's the EPCR & also the EPCR get the gate receipts with the competing teams & IRFU getting a fixed sum - am I correct? If so, no major financial loss to the IRFU if PUC was sanctioned by the EPCR at Munster Rugby's request.

      Secondly, The 2018 edition of the GAA constitution and rules has amended Rule 5.1 (Rule 42) to include the following note:
      "Central council has the power to authorise the use of Croke Park and other Stadia for games in the Rugby World Cup 2027, if this Tournament is staged in Ireland".
      Basically under Rule 5.1 the GAA Central Council can at any time sanction the use of all GAA grounds for other sports.
      No. Relative seeding determines who gets home country venue is a semi final. https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/format/rules/ EPCR decide the venue. Being a commercial entity they'll go for whichever grounds nets them the most money. For reasons already stated (many times) that'll be the Aviva.

      Again no. That relates to the 2027 RWC only. It doesn't mean what you suggested at all.

      #whackamole
      Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
      Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
        Thanks for all the comments, constructive/reasonable debate. Just a few points:-
        My understanding is that the IRFU don't control the 'Home Country Venue' it's the EPCR & also the EPCR get the gate receipts with the competing teams & IRFU getting a fixed sum - am I correct? If so, no major financial loss to the IRFU if PUC was sanctioned by the EPCR at Munster Rugby's request.

        Secondly, The 2018 edition of the GAA constitution and rules has amended Rule 5.1 (Rule 42) to include the following note:
        "Central council has the power to authorise the use of Croke Park and other Stadia for games in the Rugby World Cup 2027, if this Tournament is staged in Ireland".
        Basically under Rule 5.1 the GAA Central Council can at any time sanction the use of all GAA grounds for other sports.
        Also the fact that you need 25 k seats and Puc only has 21 k so it doesn’t even meet the desired criteria anyway

        Comment


          #64
          Originally posted by BigLad View Post

          Also the fact that you need 25 k seats and Puc only has 21 k so it doesn’t even meet the desired criteria anyway
          Apparently the 25k requirement was dropped in 2017. I read an article yesterday citing concerns over half empty attendances (obviously not games where Irish were involved!!)

          Comment


            #65
            A full Puc at 21 k seats at 70 and 24 kterrace at 35 euros would make about 1’9 million. Minus (rent)

            A full 51 k aviva at the ticket prices from 50 euro up 120 euro ( premium executive etc) makes nearly 4 million.

            If it was your business what would u do

            Comment


              #66
              BigLad:- "A full Puc at 21 k seats at 70 and 24 k terrace at 35 euros would make about 1’9 million. Minus (rent)

              A full 51 k aviva at the ticket prices from 50 euro up 120 euro ( premium executive etc) makes nearly 4 million.

              If it was your business what would u do"

              I would do a full financial forecast and also give due cognizance to intangibles (although important it's not all about money).
              Doing the maths on your figures above:- 21K Seats @ €70 = €1.47Million + 24K Seats @ €35 = €0.84Million; Total = €2.31Million (not €1.9Million).
              Aviva, if we assume 51K seats at an average of €65 = €3.31Million.

              I (& I'm sure many others) would gladly suffer a price hike of 20% in PUC prices if it meant not travelling to Dublin & a far better chance of qualifying for a final.

              Like I've posted already this is about Munster Rugby trying to satisfy/repay their supporters by at least trying to get a Munster venue nominated for potential H-Cup semi-finals.
              Is that a bad thing??

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post

                Like I've posted already this is about Munster Rugby trying to satisfy/repay their supporters by at least trying to get a Munster venue nominated for potential H-Cup semi-finals.
                Is that a bad thing??
                How many times do you have to be told that MR have no say in where a potential semi final would be played? The EPCR decide. And they will go where they make the most money. They don't care about fans.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
                  Thanks for all the comments, constructive/reasonable debate. Just a few points:-
                  My understanding is that the IRFU don't control the 'Home Country Venue' it's the EPCR & also the EPCR get the gate receipts with the competing teams & IRFU getting a fixed sum - am I correct? If so, no major financial loss to the IRFU if PUC was sanctioned by the EPCR at Munster Rugby's request.

                  Secondly, The 2018 edition of the GAA constitution and rules has amended Rule 5.1 (Rule 42) to include the following note:
                  "Central council has the power to authorise the use of Croke Park and other Stadia for games in the Rugby World Cup 2027, if this Tournament is staged in Ireland".
                  Basically under Rule 5.1 the GAA Central Council can at any time sanction the use of all GAA grounds for other sports.
                  The GAA would want rent from ERPC fir the stadium for PUC. If the ERPC rent the aviva the people who own the AVIVA (irfu and fai) would want rent. The money the IRFU would loose would be half the rental income. it’s nothing to do with gate receipts.

                  It’s like if you rent a van off your father as opposed to renting it off hertz the money will stay in your family regardless of anything you do with the fan to make money.
                  Last edited by Joe Konys barmy army; 24th-January-2019, 13:01.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
                    BigLad:- "A full Puc at 21 k seats at 70 and 24 k terrace at 35 euros would make about 1’9 million. Minus (rent)

                    A full 51 k aviva at the ticket prices from 50 euro up 120 euro ( premium executive etc) makes nearly 4 million.

                    If it was your business what would u do"

                    I would do a full financial forecast and also give due cognizance to intangibles (although important it's not all about money).
                    Doing the maths on your figures above:- 21K Seats @ €70 = €1.47Million + 24K Seats @ €35 = €0.84Million; Total = €2.31Million (not €1.9Million).
                    Aviva, if we assume 51K seats at an average of €65 = €3.31Million.

                    I (& I'm sure many others) would gladly suffer a price hike of 20% in PUC prices if it meant not travelling to Dublin & a far better chance of qualifying for a final.

                    Like I've posted already this is about Munster Rugby trying to satisfy/repay their supporters by at least trying to get a Munster venue nominated for potential H-Cup semi-finals.
                    Is that a bad thing??
                    Delusional.

                    Intangibles are of no value to EPCR. The want to maximise their return. No other consideration matters.

                    You've forgotten to subtract rent to the GAA.

                    If it's a home country semi final it'll be a home crowd. Makes no odds where in the country it is played.

                    p.s. Where did your pricing come from?
                    Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
                    Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
                      BigLad:- "A full Puc at 21 k seats at 70 and 24 k terrace at 35 euros would make about 1’9 million. Minus (rent)

                      A full 51 k aviva at the ticket prices from 50 euro up 120 euro ( premium executive etc) makes nearly 4 million.

                      If it was your business what would u do"

                      I would do a full financial forecast and also give due cognizance to intangibles (although important it's not all about money).
                      Doing the maths on your figures above:- 21K Seats @ €70 = €1.47Million + 24K Seats @ €35 = €0.84Million; Total = €2.31Million (not €1.9Million).
                      Aviva, if we assume 51K seats at an average of €65 = €3.31Million.

                      I (& I'm sure many others) would gladly suffer a price hike of 20% in PUC prices if it meant not travelling to Dublin & a far better chance of qualifying for a final.

                      Like I've posted already this is about Munster Rugby trying to satisfy/repay their supporters by at least trying to get a Munster venue nominated for potential H-Cup semi-finals.
                      Is that a bad thing??

                      If Munster are good enough to qualify for a final then it should not matter where we play. If they put the game on the moon supporters would travel. And, if we are good enough to be in the final then beating a team in the Aviva in a semi final should not be an issue. We are famous for getting more tickets than what is allocated to us, and always make the venue seem like home.

                      Should Munster not focus their time on winning the competition outright to repay their supporters rather than trying to get PUC on a list that it will never really appear on??
                      "Strike me flamin' handsome!!!" - Alf Stewart

                      His body is only a fuel tank for his micky - a work colleague talking about a fella he knows.

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
                        Mission accomplished, the debate has started in earnest - Donal Lenihan on 2FM 'Game ON'.
                        https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2019/...n-win-for-all/

                        Thanks Donal
                        "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                        Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                        Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Wallyman "How many times do you have to be told that MR have no say in where a potential semi final would be played? The EPCR decide. And they will go where they make the most money. They don't care about fans."

                          I'm not so naive as to believe that teams who qualify for the H-European Champions Cup have zero input as to where their game will be played - Toulouse play in Toulouse, Biarritz requested/got San Sebastian etc....

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Some opinions on the matter on the RTE web-site if you're interested & need some light reading:- Comments (24)

                            I don’t normally agree with much of what Donal Lenihan has to say but this time he does talk a lot of sense!


                            +22

                            PatrickMcC77p· 15 hours ago

                            I agree with Donal on this - I find I often agree with his analysis.



                            DDonDoha107p· 4 hours ago

                            I totally agree as a real GAA diehard with Donal, it makes perfect sence and now that Frank is not pulling the strings everyone has more to gain than they have loosing


                            Bobbybc98p· 6 hours ago

                            I don’t agree with him. They’d earn more from the Avivia than PUC. For Liam Miller the stadium was provided for free, that is very unlikely in this case as the GAA may want a significant cut. The IRFU have the Avivia and all its corporate offerings, and the know it’d sell out.
                            Easy for Donal to spout from the sidelines, but he hasn’t provided a single figure in his analysis.
                            This isn’t a new debate either; and it’s always made more financial sense to play in Thomand even.
                            Distance wise, getting from Limerick/Tipp/Waterford/NorthCork to Cork isn’t much different to Dublin. It’d be easier for Kerry and obviously for Cork City and it’s busineses (which is a pro for a Corkman like Lenihan - why else would a rugby match include his concerns for PUC).
                            More figures Donal to backup your argument.


                            Bhoyobhoy78p· 14 hours ago

                            Might as well host it Pairc Ui Chaoimh since very little else is being played there. Just for the record when and what was the last game played at the venue?



                            Think it was the Liam Miller memorial game


                            LeMagicienBon99p· 4 hours ago

                            Great idea, a European H-Cup semi-final in Cork - brilliant for PUC and the Cork economy. What European rugby team(including Leinster or Ulster) would like to be heading to Cork for a sell-out PUC. Time to put the old school differences to bed and move on as a mature open-minded Country.

                            +7
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                            Corkfan77100p· 13 hours ago

                            All for it - a spirit of co-operation between the two sports, why not?

                            1 REPLY · active 17 minutes ago
                            +4


                            PiddlingPete1p· 3 hours ago

                            "Why not?" because the IRFU would have to pay a massive rent on the ground to the GAA when they have free access to the Aviva which is an even bigger and better ground.

                            With the IRFU already paying munster's debt on thomond and cherry picking players from Leinster to help fill the gap munster's inadequate academy can't fill I think the munster have been given enough charity. Still though, what munster want from the IRFU they seem to get so they might as well ask.

                            The entire discussion is probably pointless as I think Saracen with beat Glasgow and have home advantage.


                            TheeKev85p· 13 hours ago

                            It makes sense, so they probably won't do it! Makes more sense that trying to fleece the few loyal supporters they have left! Anyway time to get out of the notion that GAA fields can't be used for anything else, how much taxpayers money went in to it? Shouldn't the people of Cork decide, if they'd like to watch a Rugby match in their city sometime?

                            Stanley_Marsh86p· 3 hours ago

                            I see how this would make sense from an ERC semi point of view but that's about it.

                            PUC hold 45,000 which is approx 18,000 more than TP BUT obviously Munster would have to rent PUC from the CCB which surely would make the whole adventure financially dubious.

                            Plus there's the fact that PUC is one of the most poorly located stadiums I've ever attended and the issue of whether a large additional crowd from Leinster would want to go there instead of TP.




                            The 2018 edition of the GAA constitution and rules has amended Rule 5.1 (Rule 42) to include the following note:
                            "Central council has the power to authorise the use of Croke Park and other Stadia for games in the Rugby World Cup 2027, if this Tournament is staged in Ireland".
                            The GAA in the present day has a very close working relationship with other field sports, one example is Hyde Park in Dalkey which has two pitches back to back. The bigger pitch is home to one of Ireland's largest GAA clubs, Cuala GAA with over 1,600 active members. The smaller pitch in the same field is home to the local amateur soccer club Dalkey United AFC, both clubs seem to work side by side without one bit of bother.
                            Up and Down the country there are plenty examples of this close cooperation between the GAA and other Field sports.
                            Basically under Rule 5.1 the GAA Central Council can at any time sanction the use of all GAA grounds for other sports.
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                            Schooledagain76p· 3 hours ago


                            pauliedev5694p· 15 hours ago


                            -6
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                            PatrickMcC77p· 8 hours ago


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                            pauliedev5694p· 2 hours ago

                            The GAA in their wisdom at the time only authorised the use of CP which LR was being redeveloped.....CP could only be used once the demolition of LR commenced.....once the GAA realised the millions they were making by renting out the stadium to the IRFU and FAI, they offered to extend the use once LR was finished.....it sickens me, we have 2 stadiums in the city that are hardly ever used, one is way too small for the demand, especially for rugby internationals, and the bigger one is full twice a year 2/365......and we have 2 outdated not fit for purpose childrens' hospitals, and not enough hospital beds......we're a bunch of morons us Irish
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                            godthefather-98p· 5 hours ago


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                            NorthLondongael46p· 14 hours ago

                            I am sure the GAA in Cork will listen very carefully to any proposal. But knowing the Irish rugby fraternity- they will not want to play in a GAA stadium. They will play in Thomond. Slán

                            +6
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                            Bobbybc98p· 6 hours ago

                            The Cork GAA had to yield to huge public pressure to allow a foreign sport in as part of a charity match. So not sure why you have faith they’d listen to this. Clearly you don’t know the fraternity in the GAA nor the Irish Rugby.

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                              #74
                              Originally posted by Soda Bread View Post
                              Wallyman "How many times do you have to be told that MR have no say in where a potential semi final would be played? The EPCR decide. And they will go where they make the most money. They don't care about fans."

                              I'm not so naive as to believe that teams who qualify for the H-European Champions Cup have zero input as to where their game will be played - Toulouse play in Toulouse, Biarritz requested/got San Sebastian etc....
                              I'm sorry but you are naive. And they games you speak about occurred in a different competition that no longer exists.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                H
                                Originally posted by Miguel Sanchez View Post

                                Delusional.

                                Intangibles are of no value to EPCR. The want to maximise their return. No other consideration matters.

                                You've forgotten to subtract rent to the GAA.

                                If it's a home country semi final it'll be a home crowd. Makes no odds where in the country it is played.

                                p.s. Where did your pricing come from?
                                I and not soda cake got the prices from what the aviva was charging for the saracens match in 2017. As for the Puc I just based that off cp 2009 where the terrace tickets were 35. I know inflation but I can’t see anybody paying over 40
                                to stand.

                                Anyway this tired story was was brought up by Lenihan in the news yesterday. Since we are doing well and there is no post January post Mortem performance or injury crisis with Munster this he just goes back to the poor old cork story or too many South African players in Munster team story

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