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    Van Graan ..

    I am at the end of my tether with this guy. It's backwards we're going and he's making comments like this. The whole coaching ticket needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Yep, I know it's clickbait .. but it's working.

    "We respect them and if you are the PRO 14 and European champions, they are the team we aspire to be."

    https://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...-37654688.html

    We were promised a Director of Rugby and all we've had is deafening silence on that.
    We're going to be spanked by Leinster if we continue to offer up the same drivel we've offered so far this season and if Exeter play like they did against Sarries then we are in for another spanking.

    I have zero faith in Van Graan and zero faith in the coaching ticket as a whole.

    Rant over.
    Last edited by sledger2003; 24th-December-2018, 02:04.
    Calm yourself sir.. you\'re going to give yourself skin failure.

    #2
    I think our biggest problem is attack. We've a very promising back line and high profile players but we can't get a decent attack going. It's really frustrating to see attack lines like Connaught (against Leinster), Leinster in general, Glasgow, Ulster (Mostly driven by Adison), and we can't seem to get any decent attack going.

    In fairness Erasmus also didn't manage to get our attack going so it seems to be a more structural problem. I think our problems can be solved a lot by getting a new attack coach with the right philosophy.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by sledger2003 View Post
      I am at the end of my tether with this guy. It's backwards we're going and he's making comments like this. The whole coaching ticket needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Yep, I know it's clickbait .. but it's working.

      "We respect them and if you are the PRO 14 and European champions, they are the team we aspire to be."

      https://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...-37654688.html

      We were promised a Director of Rugby and all we've had is deafening silence on that.
      We're going to be spanked by Leinster if we continue to offer up the same drivel we've offered so far this season and if Exeter play like they did against Sarries then we are in for another spanking.

      I have zero faith in Van Graan and zero faith in the coaching ticket as a whole.

      Rant over.
      I don’t see what the problem is- a team with outstanding quality well beyond their starting squad is dominating European rugby- I would love Munster to have such sustained dominance. Every coach in Europe and maybe beyond must be thinking, what can I learn do that we can better that. It’s bloody wonderful that they are an Irish team - (ok, it’s hard to swallow that it’s Leinster).

      Comment


        #4
        It’s Christmas Eve, chill out.
        The Maul is Back!! LONG LIVE THE MAUL!!

        Stringer is bigger even than his own immense shadow. Pound for pound, he is the best tackler in the world. If you put him into bag of cats he\'d come out without a scratch. He was hit very late for Murphy\'s try. And when he got up, as we knew he would, the crowd cried his name as if he had just fixed the economy.Billy Keane-After Munster\'s famous loss to the AB\'s.

        The Bull-Truly irreplaceable, a mountain of a man. 100 caps!!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by sledger2003 View Post
          I am at the end of my tether with this guy. It's backwards we're going and he's making comments like this. The whole coaching ticket needs to take a long hard look at themselves. Yep, I know it's clickbait .. but it's working.

          "We respect them and if you are the PRO 14 and European champions, they are the team we aspire to be."

          https://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...-37654688.html

          We were promised a Director of Rugby and all we've had is deafening silence on that.
          We're going to be spanked by Leinster if we continue to offer up the same drivel we've offered so far this season and if Exeter play like they did against Sarries then we are in for another spanking.

          I have zero faith in Van Graan and zero faith in the coaching ticket as a whole.

          Rant over.
          Its half way through his first season in charge. Looks like we’re going to top the group with Castres the French Champions, and Exeter the English runners up. We’re second in our conference behind Glasgow that haven’t dropped too many point thus far. Seriously lad get a grip.
          "The PRO12 is our domestic league, it's what you earn your bread and butter from; it's what pays the bills. We need to broaden our emphasis and get an understanding in Irish rugby that the domestic league from now on is most important and that's what qualifies you now for Europe.'' Garrett Fitzgerald, CEO Munster

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by KerryRed View Post

            Its half way through his first season in charge. Looks like we’re going to top the group with Castres the French Champions, and Exeter the English runners up. We’re second in our conference behind Glasgow that haven’t dropped too many point thus far. Seriously lad get a grip.
            We've a coach who on Eirsport the other night when asked about our piss poor away form made the comment that we had beaten Zebre and the Cheetahs... and you think this is good enough ?
            Come back to me next week and tell me to get a grip if we manage to pull off something against Leinster. For now .. I think we're in the **** and sinking. This bluffer has been in situ for a year now [half a season !!! ??] and we ARE going backwards. The only reason we are where we are in the Pro 14 and the European Cup is due to the quality of the playing staff, not in my opinion due to the quality of this inept coaching ticket.
            Calm yourself sir.. you\'re going to give yourself skin failure.

            Comment


              #7
              This weekend does kinda feel like a knockout game

              Munster need to tighten up the sloppy stuff and fast, if we can start beating teams better than us I'll be happy - no shock wins for a long time now
              I am the million man.

              Comment


                #8
                Ah he's grand, I actually like the guy and think when we click we could pick up a losing bonus point against the top teams, maybe.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by sledger2003 View Post

                  We've a coach who on Eirsport the other night when asked about our piss poor away form made the comment that we had beaten Zebre and the Cheetahs... and you think this is good enough ?
                  Come back to me next week and tell me to get a grip if we manage to pull off something against Leinster. For now .. I think we're in the **** and sinking. This bluffer has been in situ for a year now [half a season !!! ??] and we ARE going backwards. The only reason we are where we are in the Pro 14 and the European Cup is due to the quality of the playing staff, not in my opinion due to the quality of this inept coaching ticket.
                  So who beats normally beats Glasgow and Leinster away? Ulster have only lost once at home this season. The only place that the loss was unexpected was in Cardiff. Only Glasgow, Leinster and Ulster have lost less games than up.

                  How about calming down with the hyperbolic BS?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by KerryRed View Post

                    Its half way through his first season in charge. Looks like we’re going to top the group with Castres the French Champions, and Exeter the English runners up. We’re second in our conference behind Glasgow that haven’t dropped too many point thus far. Seriously lad get a grip.
                    Absolutely get a grip and enjoy the rugby......great game coming up on Saturday.
                    Anybody who sees a psychiatrist would want their head examined.*&nb sp;Henry Ford

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by sledger2003 View Post

                      We've a coach who on Eirsport the other night when asked about our piss poor away form made the comment that we had beaten Zebre and the Cheetahs... and you think this is good enough ?
                      Come back to me next week and tell me to get a grip if we manage to pull off something against Leinster. For now .. I think we're in the **** and sinking. This bluffer has been in situ for a year now [half a season !!! ??] and we ARE going backwards. The only reason we are where we are in the Pro 14 and the European Cup is due to the quality of the playing staff, not in my opinion due to the quality of this inept coaching ticket.
                      What he, or any coach, says to the media, and what he says to the team, ought to be different. IF (nb CAPS) JVG is complacent enough to believe that away wins in Zebra and Cheetahs are enough, then we probably are screwed, but I seriously doubt that he- or anyone asscoatated with Munster rugby (inc us) - believed that. What would the point be in coming out, Murhiono-like, and slag off particular players, or the team as a whole. The role of the coaches is to get things right- not to share their worries and plans with the media.

                      All that said, I think it is clear our backline does not function as well as it might when attacking- and that, now we have a couple of half back pairings we have faith in- it is clear that 12, as well as the variety in attack, is wanting. Knowing that, and fixing it, obviously requires more of the coaches- and the jury is out on whether Felix et al have what is required. Inevitably it will take time to know one way or the other but two inter pro wins, and two HCUP victories would do nicely in the interim.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I have to say I have very little faith left at this stage, we're only good for beating B squads at home these days.

                        It's a strange one to put your finger on(not least because we're not professional rugby player/coaches/analysts on here) but I do feel some deja-vu to previous coaching regimes. It looks like the coaches and team know where they want to go but have no clue how to get there.

                        Nov-May last season was a free pass for JvG and team. Sept to Nov this season has had a little more scrutiny and criticism but a lot of patience afforded.

                        Now at the end of December I think we've seen enough to reasonably conclude that JvG and Felix(though I hate to say it) are out of their depth. JvG is a young coach and I'm sure he's bristling with potential but one of club rugby's biggest job's with no DoR above him is too much. I like the guy, but he's not right for the job, end of.

                        Felix is another that people seem sure is full of potential and I don't doubt it but our attack is so lacklustre against defence's that care even a little, and we have a hell of a backline (best is so many years).

                        Sure there's been bad luck(injuries and some ref curse that has been put on us), and I'm not saying all is lost but at this stage I can only foresee another few months of 'nearly' results and attempts to rationalise the lack of real progress.

                        I hate saying it but the jury is out for me on this coaching ticket, we need a change (personnel change or possibly strong DoR) next season if we want to see anything different

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by sledger2003 View Post

                          We've a coach who on Eirsport the other night when asked about our piss poor away form made the comment that we had beaten Zebre and the Cheetahs... and you think this is good enough ?
                          Come back to me next week and tell me to get a grip if we manage to pull off something against Leinster. For now .. I think we're in the **** and sinking. This bluffer has been in situ for a year now [half a season !!! ??] and we ARE going backwards. The only reason we are where we are in the Pro 14 and the European Cup is due to the quality of the playing staff, not in my opinion due to the quality of this inept coaching ticket.
                          Think you ought to put away the ole Christmas Cherry!!

                          Yes first FULL season, can’t really judge a manager coming in at the half way through a season. All he was doing last year was steadying the ship.

                          What we need now is a long term project. Someone who will be here for at least 3-4 years. We do have some quality players along with a nice bit of depth. Think the problem here is people keep comparing us to Leinster, which are firing out quality players year on year, and are European Champions for a reason. Maybe the best club in the world. Along with comparisons to the Munster of old who won the two H Cups.

                          It’s going to take a bit of time to rebuild. Realistic standards/targets must be applied. We’ve had too much upheval up stairs over the last number of years. Stability is what is needed. Not knee jerk reactions to some doggy away form. We are NOT going backwards, it remains to be seen if we make any progress going forward at the end of the year.

                          But whether we win or get thumped next weekend against Leinster. We need to think long term. Getting on AvG back so early doesn’t help.
                          "The PRO12 is our domestic league, it's what you earn your bread and butter from; it's what pays the bills. We need to broaden our emphasis and get an understanding in Irish rugby that the domestic league from now on is most important and that's what qualifies you now for Europe.'' Garrett Fitzgerald, CEO Munster

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I think there are a number of factors: one is the players. In my opinion, and I could be shot for this, Leinster players are generally more intelligent than we are. Maybe its the private school system and they can select the cream of the crop but on field invariably, they make the right decisions at the right time. They play heads up rugby. Take their props, not just looking to go into contact all the time, but even looking for an offload. I've seen it too many times with Munster, we have an overlap on the wing and a prop goes into contact because he didn't even look outside. Their backs also look like they are 2 phases ahead of other teams, good coaching and intelligent players.

                            Also, I'm amazed that on this site, even after 10 years of underachievement, people are still talking about building and give this guy time, give that guy time. Talk about burying your head in the sand. How long does it take to realise that Jones has not progressed the Munster backline? We have no cohesion as an attacking unit and just rely on individual bits of skill to get any line breaks. We have been badly served by the top brass at Munster, i.e., Fitzgerald, bringing in inexperienced coaches, some who had never even worked in a professional set up! You couldn't make it up. Munster needs to be run as a business, not a jobs for the boys club, which has happened in the past. You know this would not happen at Leinster, yet we have to put up with it

                            Another factor IMHO is that we are slowly losing the fabric of what Munster rugby was all about. Only 8 of the 15 starters 2 weeks ago were from Munster. We have become a nursery for Saffers. When 3 out of the 4 backrow forwards selected for the game 2 weeks ago were from SA, you have to start asking questions. I would rather have rookie players from Munster in there and lose as long as they gave everything on the field. The Munster identity was about the sum of the parts being greater but thats all being lost and we have become a mix of Leinster B, SA and Munster. We have sacrificing long term gain for shortermism.

                            The next thing is the academy system. Given that the club game has dwindled and this has had a huge effect on Munster especially. But are we learning from what Leinster are doing in their academies? Do we have similar structures in place to ensure that we maximise our player pool? We might never compete with their sheer numbers but we should be ensuring that any promising players are getting all the help and good coaching they need.

                            I am not that hopeful for 2019. Hopefully we will keep our place as 2nd best province but even that might be under threat..................

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by patman142 View Post
                              I think there are a number of factors: one is the players. In my opinion, and I could be shot for this, Leinster players are generally more intelligent than we are. Maybe its the private school system and they can select the cream of the crop but on field invariably, they make the right decisions at the right time. They play heads up rugby. Take their props, not just looking to go into contact all the time, but even looking for an offload. I've seen it too many times with Munster, we have an overlap on the wing and a prop goes into contact because he didn't even look outside. Their backs also look like they are 2 phases ahead of other teams, good coaching and intelligent players.

                              Also, I'm amazed that on this site, even after 10 years of underachievement, people are still talking about building and give this guy time, give that guy time. Talk about burying your head in the sand. How long does it take to realise that Jones has not progressed the Munster backline? We have no cohesion as an attacking unit and just rely on individual bits of skill to get any line breaks. We have been badly served by the top brass at Munster, i.e., Fitzgerald, bringing in inexperienced coaches, some who had never even worked in a professional set up! You couldn't make it up. Munster needs to be run as a business, not a jobs for the boys club, which has happened in the past. You know this would not happen at Leinster, yet we have to put up with it

                              Another factor IMHO is that we are slowly losing the fabric of what Munster rugby was all about. Only 8 of the 15 starters 2 weeks ago were from Munster. We have become a nursery for Saffers. When 3 out of the 4 backrow forwards selected for the game 2 weeks ago were from SA, you have to start asking questions. I would rather have rookie players from Munster in there and lose as long as they gave everything on the field. The Munster identity was about the sum of the parts being greater but thats all being lost and we have become a mix of Leinster B, SA and Munster. We have sacrificing long term gain for shortermism.

                              The next thing is the academy system. Given that the club game has dwindled and this has had a huge effect on Munster especially. But are we learning from what Leinster are doing in their academies? Do we have similar structures in place to ensure that we maximise our player pool? We might never compete with their sheer numbers but we should be ensuring that any promising players are getting all the help and good coaching they need.

                              I am not that hopeful for 2019. Hopefully we will keep our place as 2nd best province but even that might be under threat..................
                              Are you getting a new rod and reel from Santa?
                              "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                              Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                              Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

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