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Munster ’myth’ in Examiner

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    Munster ’myth’ in Examiner



    Anyone read this???!





    @@@@SPAN =articleline>Munster key to success no longer a class act@@@@/SPAN>

    @@@@SPAN =articlesummary>MUNSTER’S recent rugby success is based on casting off its “snooty, middle-class” image, says an academic whose research suggests the province’s “identity” is an invention of the professional rugby era. @@@@/SPAN>

    @@@@SPAN =article>
    Liam O’Callaghan of Bruff, a PhD student at Leeds Metropolitan university, says: “Taking the Munster team itself, an entire historical profile has been built up around them that they’ve always been competitive, with a great record against competitive teams, which they have.

    “But did they ever capture the public imagination apart from 1978? I’m not altogether sure. It was telling in the build-up to Munster-Leinster last year that while the media usually cites previous encounters between teams, there was nothing to call on in this instance.

    “The pilgrimages to Thomond Park for the Heineken Cup have their foundation myth in the 1978 team, and it’s no accident that a book about and dramatisation of that game have come out since this Munster XV have come to prominence.”

    O’Callaghan points out that he’s not criticising “the Munster rugby phenomenon”.

    “It’s great for the future of the game,” he says. “Some of the new fans may lose interest if the team starts losing, but some of them will stay on anyway. Munster rugby needs to popularise the game and disassociate itself from its snooty, middle-class past.”

    O’Callaghan points out that while most journalists are aware of the fact that the Munster phenomenon is: “a great novelty with no great historical precedent”, there are some who try to link this to a long tradition of Munster rugby.

    “Press reports and books show Munster rugby wasn’t nearly as cohesive as one thinks, but was divided along two lines — geographically first, with rival Cork and Limerick interests at the committee table. Limerick supporters were often disappointed with the selection of the provincial team. Because Cork would always have a majority on the selection committee, people in Limerick felt sometimes inferior Cork players were accommodated.

    “The second line of division was social class. While there are significant shades of grey, with some Cork clubs rightly refuting this theory, Cork rugby has always been largely regarded as middle-class, a sport for the professional, financial sectors and for fee-paying schools. Seven of the eight Cork players on the Heineken Cup-winning team went to fee-paying schools, for instance.”

    O’Callaghan points to shades of grey in Limerick rugby’s working class image also.

    “In Limerick the working-class infiltration was largely confined to junior clubs which were on the periphery. Young Munster were staunchly working-class, but until the 50s they were the only senior club in Limerick — applications from Shannon and Richmond for senior status were rejected, for example.

    “I don’t think that was done cynically — at that time the branch’s main source of income was the Munster Senior Cup, so there was a motivation to keep that competition for senior cups, to keep it viable — and on the playing side if junior clubs were kept junior, then senior clubs could take players for the Senior Cup.

    “In the past there were a lot of disparate identities in Munster rugby — you had working-class Limerick, middle-class Cork, and the professional banking classes in provincial towns. It wasn’t the unified, cohesive force of provincial identity we’ve seen since the onset of professional rugby.

    “There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just the way it was.”

    O’Callaghan points to parallels between Munster and Ulster, interestingly enough: “What you also have in the Ulster mix is religion, of course, and it’s largely middle-class, but there’s a parallel in that a certain identity is put out there.

    “The Munst

    #2


    He's right in a lot of what he has to say but wrt the future, there has been an explosion of playing rugby amongst kids. Considering the likes of Rog, Foley etc came from far fewer numbers, I think there is every reason to expect a decent quality of player to come through over the long term.


    The challenge that does exist, is for Munster Rugby to get the structure right for bringing these kids, through especially Club players.

    Comment


      #3


      Completely ignores that since the start of the AIL Munster clubs have completely dominated it, winning every one in the 1990's and that the biggest crowds were generally for Limerick derbies, followed by Limerick V Cork games. I believe this is where the core of the Munster support came from, people started going to Munster games instead of AIL games.


      In 1998 Shannon V Garryowen attracted about 18000 for the AIL final IIRC.





      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by wildRover


        Completely ignores that since the start of the AIL Munster clubs have completely dominated it, winning every one in the 1990's and that the biggest crowds were generally for Limerick derbies, followed by Limerick V Cork games. I believe this is where the core of the Munster support came from, people started going to Munster games instead of AIL games.


        In 1998 Shannon V Garryowen attracted about 18000 for the AIL final IIRC.








        Exactly what I was thinking
        http://www.rebelwaves.com

        Comment


          #5
          and forget about the 10k attendances at lowly league fixtures in TP between S & G. Used to love going to the shannon cookies games as a kid. always had the best slags for the ref!
          Hi sham, gimme 2 pints of carling, a bottle of bud, and a vodka and orange for the burd

          Comment


            #6
            @@@@SPAN>“In Limerick the working-class infiltration was largely confined
            to junior clubs which were on the periphery. Young Munster were
            staunchly working-class, but until the 50s they were the only senior
            club in Limerick — applications from Shannon and Richmond for senior
            status were rejected, for example."

            What a load of crap. Firstly how does being junior or senior make any difference?

            Secondly, Garryowen become a senior club in the 19th century - the guy must have no idea.
            @@@@/SPAN>

            Comment


              #7
              My first reaction tooMax. He does have no idea and any he has is tainted with a certain amount of negativism or dare we suggest begrudgery? Will be interesting to find out how closely or otherwise he was associated with Bruff RFC.
              Hello friends in Brussels. Baldy here

              Comment


                #8
                I find it hilarious that people constantly try and pick holes in Munster rugby accusing it of being a recent 'phenomenon' or having 'one man & his dog' attendences. But nobody ever looks at the fact we used to have capacity crowds in TP, Dooradoyle, TC Park or Templehill way before the birth of professional rugby.

                Do Crusaders fans get slated because they are 'bandwagon' supporters who used to follow Canterbury until the Super 8 came along?

                I think the lad should have looked up 'rugby IN Munster' instead of 'Munster Rugby' when he was putting the thing together. Then he may have got some answers.

                Comment


                  #9


                  Let the Bull at him I say...


                  Also, let's remember where this fella is doing his PhD...Leeds University. Know your audience etc. He wouldn't get away with writing it in UCC or UL! [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]
                  Murty\'s gonna get ya

                  Comment


                    #10

                    Originally posted by Max Headroom
                    @@@@SPAN>“In Limerick the working-class infiltration was largely confined
                    to junior clubs which were on the periphery. Young Munster were
                    staunchly working-class, but until the 50s they were the only senior
                    club in Limerick — @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">applications from Shannon and Richmond for senior
                    status were rejected, for example.@@@@/SPAN>"

                    What a load of crap. Firstly how does being junior or senior make any difference?

                    Secondly, Garryowen become a senior club in the 19th century - the guy must have no idea.
                    @@@@/SPAN>
                    A sorry story. Shannon had to get proposed by a Cork club and the IRFU had to step in to get Richmond senior status. Those greedy Limerick clubs up to their old tricks again.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      @@@@SPAN lang=EN-IE>With all due respect the guy has very valid points. He is stating it is the Munster Rugby team not Munster Rugby that has the very definite fly by night support and questionable heritage/tradition. I don’t see anything wrong with what he says tbh. When I went to Shannon in the 90’s and they won I didn’t give a stuff about<st1:State w:st="&#111;n">Munster</st1:State> I supported<ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]Shannon</ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]When they beat Lansdowne for example I didn’t see it as <st1:State w:st="&#111;n">Munster</st1:State> beating <ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]Leinster </ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]it didn’t come into it. The whole Munster thing has been invented out of necessity to allow us compete with English and French clubs, I have no problem admitting this, why people get all defensive when somebody suggests it in a paper is beyond me? @@@@/SPAN>

                      Comment


                        #12


                        Tubridy is supposed to be talking about it this morning


                        http://www.rte.ie/smiltest/radio_new.smil

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by gamian
                          @@@@SPAN lang=EN-IE>With all due respect the guy has very valid points. He is stating it is the Munster Rugby team not Munster Rugby that has the very definite fly by night support and questionable heritage/tradition. I don’t see anything wrong with what he says tbh. When I went to Shannon in the 90’s and they won I didn’t give a stuff about <st1:State w:st="&#111;n">Munster</st1:State> I supported<ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]Shannon</ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]When they beat Lansdowne for example I didn’t see it as <st1:State w:st="&#111;n">Munster</st1:State> beating <ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]Leinster </ST1[img]smileys/razz.gif[/img]it didn’t come into it. The whole Munster thing has been invented out of necessity to allow us compete with English and French clubs, I have no problem admitting this, why people get all defensive when somebody suggests it in a paper is beyond me? @@@@/SPAN>


                          It isn't 100% correct but not far off. Munster did haveglory days before professionalism (beating the ABs andAustralia). The problem was that they only played 5 or 6 times a year instead of 30 times a year ! However those victories (AB in particular) were used to create an image of Munster to project into the professionalism.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Point


                            Tubridy is supposed to be talking about it this morning


                            http://www.rte.ie/smiltest/radio_new.smil


                            Liam O'Callaghan on now

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Point
                              Originally posted by Point


                              Tubridy is supposed to be talking about it this morning


                              http://www.rte.ie/smiltest/radio_new.smil


                              Liam O'Callaghan on now





                              Anything interesting talked about? Can't get it at work
                              As the great warrior poet Ice Cube once said, “if the day does not require an AK, it is good.”

                              Comment

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