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Physical conditionig re English sides

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    Physical conditionig re English sides



    This is in relation to the conditioning of the Munster International players.


    Apologies if this has been posted already. Im just wondering about our physical conditioning and strength for want of a better word in relation to the English teams. I remember Jim Williams wrote a scathing article on the Indo in the aftermath of the Wasps game saying that the conditioning of Irish players was what needed to improve if we were to compete with a big physical sides all the time.


    I thought that Camp Carney was to be the great saviour of Irish rugby and allow Irish payers the necessary individual training schedule to be able to perform at an optimum level. It certainly seemed to work in November internationals but all 3 provinces in the HEC since then have failed miserably in the physical steaks and we beat Leinter up at Xmas.


    Im not talking about set-pieces, lineouts or mauls. I m talking about sheer ability to get over the gain-line and ability to retain and recycle ball quickly at ruck time. I know its not all to do with physicality but it goes a lon way. This is not an attack on Camp Carney i think its benefits are there to be seen but does ayone have an opinion on why we cant beat up English club teams.
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    #2
    We usually do beat up English club sides, at least at home.

    Leicester did beat us up a bit but I don't know how much of that is purely down to their physicality (as opposed to say their skill and form, selections on both sides, their scrum dominance etc.) and how much of that was Munster being in poor form.

    Remember that our pack was, for the most part, the same one that took apart the big Saffer pack (ok, not a first choice one but a big, physical pack).

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      #3
      reckon theres little if any difference between the professional teams round the world in terms of preperation.you'll always have freaks like the tuilagis who are bigger and stronger naturally,but they train the same as anyone else
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        #4


        Agree with last point - physically top Irish players are capable of matching any other side. The issues are how match fit they are? For example several of our players are coming back from injury and only matches are going to harden the body the way it needs to be. Are they carrying knocks? Again I suspect we have several with aches and strains. What form are they in? Form does count for a massive amount. A player off form, whose approach isn't right, can be the fittest and strongest player around and still not cross the gain line. If you the other guy gets the hit right and you don't, you're going nowhere. Body positioning? Stringer does a great job around the fringes of scrums dropping big guys, because they're half way down, not into full flight etc he can apply pressure to the back or flick at the leg and the guy's going down.


        The real evidence of fitness changes is that we no longer see the great 60 minutes followed by a 30-50 point capitulation in the final 20. That was lack of conditioning and fitness. Personally I think that our players are just in piss poor form at the moment.

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          #5





          I think match fitness might have been an issue for some against Leicester. I think we have closed the gap over the last couple of years, and I don't think we'd struggle to match others now the way we did against, say, Wasps in the semi.


          The scrum is also important - the team that's beating the other up in the scrum will have a lot more steam around the park. It really takes it out of the front row in particular if they're getting screwed.
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            #6
            Good point, it's why we've always beaten up sides when we've mauled a lot. It really saps the legs out of the opposition trying to defend these and mentally being on the receiving end of another hard scrum or hard maul deflates. Mental "energy" or deflation can make a difference to physical performance as well.

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              #7
              Also I suspect that the Irish elite players are being trained to peak for the WC.

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                #8
                I hope so, I think the international players have lacked the intensity of previous years. I've been waiting for them to go out and murder another team for a while as a backlash, alas not yet!
                Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
                Munster: Early Season
                Munster: Escape from Pool of Death
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                  #9

                  Originally posted by Cathal
                  I hope so, I think the international players have lacked the intensity of previous years. I've been waiting for them to go out and murder another team for a while as a backlash, alas not yet!
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                    #10
                    I meant Munster's international contingent.

                    Shameless self promotion time ladies and gents!
                    Munster: Early Season
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                    Munster: HEC Champions 2007/2008
                    Munster: Full Season Highlights.

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                      #11


                      Our international players are seriously powerful and a lot stronger and more explosive than they were a couple of years ago. One bad game and suddenly we're questionning their conditioning. Rubbish!


                      That whole Leicester team was selected to take us on physically on a day when we were missing afew key hard men.Their pack is one of the most powerful around, their centres are big men andtheir wingers are built like flankers (and used as such). I reckon that no other club side could do to us what they did.


                      From our first choice starting XV we were missing Quinny (MOD's not nearly as physical and all the conditioning in the world won't make him so), Halstead (again, Mafi is small and will never make the same impact) andFla (a much better ball carrier and more abrasive forward than Frankie). Add to that the fact that Leamy (one of the most powerful back rowers anywhere)was weakened by illness and you have a big part of the reason we were beaten up.

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                        #12
                        Scrummaging apart, our biggest weakness against GP teams in the past, was tactically. Under Gaffney most of all, we allowed ourselves to be sucked into a bish-bash confrontation, a game that GP sides are far more at home with.

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                          #13
                          This is just a personal theory but I feel this season we have suffered from nothing going hell for leather in the Magners league. We've thrown the second team in there en masse without 1st team support. This has imo led to the following

                          1) Underperformance in the league and poor performaces

                          2) A lack of match time for the 1st team


                          Watching Leicster the last day they looked like a team that is regulary playing at an intense level.

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                            #14

                            Originally posted by Don Munsafano
                            This is just a personal theory but I feel this season we have suffered from nothing going hell for leather in the Magners league. We've thrown the second team in there en masse without 1st team support. This has imo led to the following

                            1) Underperformance in the league and poor performaces

                            2) A lack of match time for the 1st team


                            Watching Leicster the last day they looked like a team that is regulary playing at an intense level.
                            Not really DK's fault though, you had the Poland camp which kept the 1st out of the first 2 or 3 games, then off for the autumn internationals etc, They've played all the games theyre available for really

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Munsterboy


                              Our international players are seriously powerful and a lot stronger and more explosive than they were a couple of years ago. One bad game and suddenly we're questionning their conditioning. Rubbish!


                              That whole Leicester team was selected to take us on physically on a day when we were missing afew key hard men.Their pack is one of the most powerful around, their centres are big men andtheir wingers are built like flankers (and used as such). I reckon that no other club side could do to us what they did.


                              From our first choice starting XV we were missing Quinny (MOD's not nearly as physical and all the conditioning in the world won't make him so), Halstead (again, Mafi is small and will never make the same impact) andFla (a much better ball carrier and more abrasive forward than Frankie). Add to that the fact that Leamy (one of the most powerful back rowers anywhere)was weakened by illness and you have a big part of the reason we were beaten up.


                              Munsterboy i was only expressing an opinion. We were missing none of these players the first time against Leicester at Welford road bar Fla and he was missing for all other games we won so he doesnt count as an equaliser for the whole team. We were beaten up pyisically there too andby common consensus from both sides they lost it because of their indiscipline and O' Gara's un-erring boot.
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