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Provisional Heineken Cup Rankings for next year

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    Provisional Heineken Cup Rankings for next year

    Now that the Quarter finals have been reached, the rankings from the Pool stages can be added and those from 2008-9 subtracted to give an indication of what the rankings might be in July when next year's draw is made. The news is not good for Munster.

    Ranking Team Points Possible change
    1 Leinster 32 Can get another 3
    2 Toulouse 26 Can get another 3
    3 Biarritz 23 Can get another 3
    4 Clermont 21 Can get another 6
    5 Ulster 20 Can get another 6
    6 Toulon 20 Can get another 6
    7 Munster 20 Can get another 6
    8 Northampton 18
    9 Stade Francais 16 Can get another 4
    10 Harlequins 15 Can get another 6
    11 Cardiff 15
    12 Leicester 13 Can get another 6
    13 Saracens 11 Can get another 6
    14 Edinburgh 11
    15 Perpignan 11 Can get another 4
    16 Wasps 11 Can get another 4
    17 Ospreys 10
    18 Scarlets 9
    19 Glasgow 8
    20 Montpellier 7 Can get another 6
    21 Connacht 7
    22 Bath 7 Can get another 4
    23 Gloucester 7 Can get another 4
    24 Brive 7
    25 Castres 5
    26 Racing Metro 92 5
    27 Benetton Treviso 4
    28 Sale 3
    29 Exeter 2
    30 Bourgoin 2
    31 Dragons 2
    32 Newcastle 2
    33 La Rochelle 2
    34 Zebre 1

    Teams in the last eight of the Heinken Cup can gain two points for winning the Quarter Final, Semi Final and Final respectively. (2+2+2)
    Teams who are in the Amlin from the start can gain four points, (2+1+1) for winning the Quarter Final, Semi Final and Final respectively.
    Teams who got into the Amlin from the Heineken can gain three points (1+1+1) from winning the Quarter Final, Semi Final and Final respectively.

    As you can see, Munster are seventh, at present, behind Toulon and Ulster because they each got more points in this year's Competition (5 each) than Munster (4). Munster need to get further in the knock-out stages than both of them to overtake them and retain top tier status, Passing one of them out would do as long as the other one or Clermont win out.

    EDIT: Leinster will be a top tier team next year no matter what.

    Ulster must match Toulon's and Munster's progress to stay in fifth. Sixth place would put Ulster in the Top Tier if Clermont, Toulon or Munster win out. Otherwise, whoever wins it would go into the top tier and Ulster would lose out.
    Last edited by Piquet; 21st-January-2013, 13:06.

    #2
    So if it were to stay as it is we would have to have either Toulon, Toulouse, Clermont or Biarritz in our group and so I suppose Leinster or Ulster would have to have Stade France.

    Lets hope we do well or get Biarritz then.
    I am one of the 5 clowns woo hoo

    Comment


      #3
      But it's only window dressing for "the Draw" really isn't it - though it's nice to be up town and top ranking we were always facing this drop.

      In the 2007-2008 pool we had ERC champs Wasps, Amlin champs Clermont and Llanelli who dumped us out the previous year - so being top ranked got us no favours in terms of the "Draw". Leinster won it last year and got Clermont in their pool this year.

      We'll be feared as much as any of the top six. And anyway a tough group can be "character forming".
      Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Piquet View Post
        As you can see, Munster are seventh, at present, behind Toulon and Ulster because they each got more points in this year's Competition (5 each) than Munster (4). Munster need to get further in the knock-out stages than both of them to overtake them and retain top tier status, Passing one of them out would do as long as the other one or Clermont win out.
        There is another way for Munster to retain their top seed and that is for one of the teams above them not to qualify for next years competition, and given Biarritz are currently 10th in the top 14 that is quite possible.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by webbie View Post
          There is another way for Munster to retain their top seed and that is for one of the teams above them not to qualify for next years competition, and given Biarritz are currently 10th in the top 14 that is quite possible.
          Assuming that Quins don't leapfrog them by winning the thing!
          New infraction avoidance policy: a post may be described as imbecilic, but its author should never be described as an imbecile.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by rathbaner View Post

            We'll be feared as much as any of the top six. And anyway a tough group can be "character forming".

            One small flaw there, we're not feared anymore 😞

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Hugh Jardon View Post
              One small flaw there, we're not feared anymore 
              For certain!!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Hugh Jardon View Post
                One small flaw there, we're not feared anymore 😞
                I know it looks that way now but once Deccie gives back our players, Ronan and O'Connell clock in again and suddenly we will be looking mean again.
                Killer, Sherry, BJ, DR, POC, POM, Ronan and the youngster Coughlin, thats a fine pack, with CJ, TOD and the rest barking and growling on the bench.
                Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
                  Assuming that Quins don't leapfrog them by winning the thing!
                  Agreed, or Stade who would also jump over us if they won the Amlin and we lost to Quins.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by rathbaner View Post
                    I know it looks that way now but once Deccie gives back our players, Ronan and O'Connell clock in again and suddenly we will be looking mean again.
                    Killer, Sherry, BJ, DR, POC, POM, Ronan and the youngster Coughlin, thats a fine pack, with CJ, TOD and the rest barking and growling on the bench.
                    Feared? Ronan?? It's not a word I would apply to him not in the manner that Quinny or Leamy were
                    Con Artist

                    Comment


                      #11
                      He was absolutely on fire for us before he got injured, another level up again from previous seasons. It was much commented on here too.
                      Munster's pack is chronically underpowered. When you put all the youngsters together in a team you really see how much we depend on the senior players.
                      When we get our pack back we'll be much more competitive.
                      Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Old Dog View Post
                        Assuming that Quins don't leapfrog them by winning the thing!
                        HEC winner is automatically a top seed, so Quins, Leicester, Saracens or Montpellier would leapfrog Munster by winning the HEC.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Everything is not that bleak
                          IF we lose on Sunday to remain in the Top Tier
                          We have to rely on either Biarritz or Stade Francais NOT winning the Amlin as it is highly improbable either will qualify via the T14
                          And Harlequins, Saracens or Leicester not winning the HC
                          WHEN we win on Sunday even if BOPB win the Amlin as long as Saracens or Leicester do not win the HC we are guaranteed Tier 1
                          If somehow Saracens or Leicester win the HC we need BOPB not to win the Amlin

                          If anyone apart from BOPB wins the Amlin and Us, Toulon or CA win the HC we are in Tier 1
                          14 Teams qualified for next years HC already
                          Leinster, Ulster, Toulon,CA, ST, Harlequins, Leicester, Saracens, Ospreys, Scarlets, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Treviso, Zerbe
                          Last 10 Places
                          Munster need 6 points from our last 3 games in order to guarantee HC over Connacht. Both Qualify if we win HC
                          Cardiff Blues need 5pts from 3 games in order to hold off the Dragons
                          Northampton need to implode to lose out
                          Gloucester need to implode to lose out
                          Bath/Wasps/Exeter 1 place up for grabs (or 2 if Quins or Saracens win HC)
                          Castres (1 win in last 3 matches will be enough)
                          Racing Metro (1 win in last 3 matches will be enough)
                          Montpellier (1 win in last 3 matches will be enough)
                          USAP/BOPB/Grenoble/SF if a French team wins the HC
                          Connacht if Munster win the HC
                          Only 6 in guaranteed Tiers
                          Tier 1 Leinster, Toulouse, CA
                          Tier 2
                          Tier 3 Edinburgh
                          Tier 4 Glasgow, Treviso, Zebre
                          Last edited by dermotmccarthy; 6th-April-2013, 19:50.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I have updated the Provisional Rankings taking account of the week-end's results. Those teams in the Amlin can get one more point and those in the Heineken can get two more points for every win in the Semis and the Final. For Munster to stay in the Top Tier, Munster, Clermont or Toulon must win the Heineken or BOPB must not qualify for the Heineken by winning the Amlin or reaching the top 6 in the Top14. If BOPB qualify for the Heinken in seventh in the Top 14 it will mean that either Clermont or Toulon will have won the Heineken, ensuring Munster of a top tier spot. EDIT If Stade Francais or Perpignan win the Amlin, they will be the seventh French team to qualify.

                            Teams in Bold have qualified for next year.

                            Ranking Team Points Possible change
                            1 Leinster 33 Can get another 2
                            2 Toulouse 26
                            3 Biarritz 24 Can get another 2
                            4 Clermont 23 Can get another 4
                            5 Toulon 22 Can get another 4
                            6 Munster 22 Can get another 4
                            7 Ulster 20
                            8 Northampton 18
                            9 Stade Francais 18 Can get another2
                            10 Harlequins 15
                            11 Cardiff 15
                            12 Saracens 13 Can get another 4
                            13 Leicester 13
                            14 Perpignan 13 Can get another 2
                            15 Edinburgh 11
                            16 Wasps 11
                            17 Ospreys 10
                            18 Scarlets 9
                            19 Glasgow 8
                            20 Montpellier 7
                            21 Connacht 7
                            22 Bath 7
                            23 Gloucester 7
                            24 Brive 7
                            25 Castres 5
                            26 Racing Metro 92 5
                            27 Benetton Treviso 4
                            28 Sale 3
                            29 Exeter 2
                            30 Bourgoin 2
                            31 Dragons 2
                            32 Newcastle 2
                            33 La Rochelle 2
                            34 Zebre 1
                            Last edited by Piquet; 8th-April-2013, 15:52.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              How the hell are Biarritz so high up, they have only been in one final in the last three years. Didn't get out of the group the last two years.
                              Definition of Insanity. Playing the same game plan over and over again expecting a different result.

                              Comment

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