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Laws Question. Ask here! 2016 Laws changes Post #113

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    https://www.the42.ie/du-toit-red-yel...46535-Mar2020/


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    I am the million man.

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      Originally posted by mr chips View Post

      That response is just daft. When pro coaches criticise refereeing decisions, they often get hauled over the coals and/or fined. Doesn't always stop them, of course - in fact our own Stephen Larkham had a few words to say about inconsistent application of laws in one of those "break in play" interviews during a recent game. In the media - are you serious? Look up the thread for a couple of the most recent comments from the media, i.e. the media pundits Brian Moore and Paul O'Connell, for starters. Or do comments only count when they come from active referees who attend the referee society meetings?

      Re "it isnt seen as an issue as it's not." Seen by whom? You are presenting your own opinion as a statement of fact here. Clearly it is an issue or we wouldn't be discussing it!

      Answer one of my questions from earlier please - what in your view is the purpose of defining the hindmost foot of a ruck as the offside line?
      its not daft at all actually when you look at actual management and best control of a game.
      I'm talking about over the long term and media coverage. If offside was as big an issue as some here have been making it out to be then why has there not been regular calls for changes to the offside law.
      It's not an issue as coaches aren't saying much about it if anything at all. Its not coming up in feedback for refs to alter their approach to facilitating games.
      you cant have a rigid approach to the laws. The game becomes unrefereeable then. You must allow flexibility otherwise you have the mess that is Gaelic football between how refs are treated, how the game is reffed, how the game is played.

      Comment


        There haven't been calls, regular or otherwise, for the Offside Law to be changed, simply because people don't want it changed.
        We want it applied, consistently.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Piquet View Post
          There haven't been calls, regular or otherwise, for the Offside Law to be changed, simply because people don't want it changed.
          We want it applied, consistently.
          what do you see as a consistent application of the offside law?
          I think the way refs are managing it as a whole is quite consistent
          Every offside is not the same. If you are pillar at a tackle/ruck being offside is not the same as if you are in midfield and it's different again if you are offside on the far wing from a tackle/ruck
          You cannot treat all as the same. The approach to offside will also differ depending on where on pitch an infringement occurs
          many here are looking for a solution to something that really isnt needed to be solved. There is far more issues that need to be worked on than wasting time trying to "fix" something that doesnt need a fix
          the collision aspect of the game and stopping and greater sanctions for players launching themselves illegally into tackle ruck are far more important changes

          Comment


            How will the two examples you quote be removed from the game?

            Why by penalising players who infringe until they stop infringing, of course.

            At the start of the campaign to eradicate "players launching themselves" there will be a lot of penalties and Cards dished out. This will affect games, disrupting the flow and leading to 15 v 14 games, but if Refs and Disciplinary Panels hold their collective nerves, infringements, Sanctions and bans will reduce.

            Once this campaign has been successful, Offside can be addressed in the same way.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Piquet View Post
              How will the two examples you quote be removed from the game?

              Why by penalising players who infringe until they stop infringing, of course.

              At the start of the campaign to eradicate "players launching themselves" there will be a lot of penalties and Cards dished out. This will affect games, disrupting the flow and leading to 15 v 14 games, but if Refs and Disciplinary Panels hold their collective nerves, infringements, Sanctions and bans will reduce.

              Once this campaign has been successful, Offside can be addressed in the same way.
              For me it is the inconsistency with regard to what will/wont be tolerated and sanctioned that needs to be tightened up. If we need more officials or give more power to the officials we have so be it- certainty of detection and consistency of sanctioning will quickly eradicate behaviours where a side gains an unfair advantage that is inconsistent with the laws of the game (maybe that’s what OLs ‘materiality’ is). The notion that it will take time and loads of penalty ridden games before the behaviour changes is just wrong. At the moment I feel coaching is deliberately exploiting the inconsistencies in order to gain advantage- remove the inconsistency, warn clearly before the game, penalise and remind and it will change pdq.

              Comment


                Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                its not daft at all actually when you look at actual management and best control of a game.
                I'm talking about over the long term and media coverage. If offside was as big an issue as some here have been making it out to be then why has there not been regular calls for changes to the offside law.
                It's not an issue as coaches aren't saying much about it if anything at all. Its not coming up in feedback for refs to alter their approach to facilitating games.
                you cant have a rigid approach to the laws. The game becomes unrefereeable then. You must allow flexibility otherwise you have the mess that is Gaelic football between how refs are treated, how the game is reffed, how the game is played.
                There may not have been regular calls for changes to the offside law, but as Piquet and others have said it's implementation of EXISTING LAWS that we want to see. So looking at the last time there was a change in the offside law, I'll ask you for the third time for a proper and full response to my question. What is the purpose of defining the hindmost foot of a ruck as the offside line?
                Tis but a scratch.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by mr chips View Post

                  There may not have been regular calls for changes to the offside law, but as Piquet and others have said it's implementation of EXISTING LAWS that we want to see. So looking at the last time there was a change in the offside law, I'll ask you for the third time for a proper and full response to my question. What is the purpose of defining the hindmost foot of a ruck as the offside line?
                  If the GPS unit in the spine of the professional jersey can track a distance covered in training why can't it be used to track an offside line?

                  Give an arbitrary portion of time for a fatty to rumble back into the onside defensive line and if the fat bastard doesn't do it make the referee know via his smart watch saying 1 offside etc

                  The pro game has two choices imo

                  Re-power the referee alone so he's not listening to other voices constantly

                  De-power him even more because the punters feel they're all below the level of the game nowadays and let Hawkeye decide where the hindmost GPS unit is
                  I am the million man.

                  Comment


                    That GPS idea sounds like an eminently workable solution to me. How accurate are they, to within a metre? Less? If a margin of error of say 50cm was viable, it wouldn't be hard to bring in for the top flight.

                    Nice one Cowboy - that's a whole lot better than refusing to acknowledge that the current situation is detrimental to the game and implying that anyone who highlights it is just a crank.
                    Tis but a scratch.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mr chips View Post
                      That GPS idea sounds like an eminently workable solution to me. How accurate are they, to within a metre? Less? If a margin of error of say 50cm was viable, it wouldn't be hard to bring in for the top flight.

                      Nice one Cowboy - that's a whole lot better than refusing to acknowledge that the current situation is detrimental to the game and implying that anyone who highlights it is just a crank.
                      Everything is fine Comrade Chips.

                      "Our power comes from perception of our power"


                      The reactor is fine, impossible it has detonated
                      I am the million man.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                        Everything is fine Comrade Chips.

                        "Our power comes from perception of our power"


                        The reactor is fine, impossible it has detonated
                        Ock, my dilithium crystals won’t hold it Captain
                        "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                        Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                        Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                        Comment


                          GPS is accurate to about +/- 3m. Military GPS is accurate to within 1cm, but good luck asking the military to open up their satellite systems to measure the offside line in rugby!

                          Why can't the AR / touch judge look at the offside line?

                          Aside form that, I haven't seen a straight, contestable line out in about 10 years, and feeding the second row at the scrum happens about 90% of the time imho.

                          Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
                            Why can't the AR / touch judge look at the offside line?
                            A list if you will of referees and assistant referees you think would be able to handle a 6 year olds birthday party with 35 attendees. I'll get the ball rolling as it were,



                            ...............
                            I am the million man.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
                              what do you see as a consistent application of the offside law?
                              I think the way refs are managing it as a whole is quite consistent
                              Every offside is not the same. If you are pillar at a tackle/ruck being offside is not the same as if you are in midfield and it's different again if you are offside on the far wing from a tackle/ruck
                              But if the out half/first receiver forward receives the ball and one of the defensive centres has shot up offside he stops any ball being passed beyond the attacking centres or if it does he makes the tackle quicker or shuts off the space. This is definitely something that happens every match. And I would also argue a large percentage of these offsides are only called when attacking teams are in or close to the opposition's 22. This is often overlooked outside of these two areas. Personally I can't agree with this as it's restricting teams playing more open rugby in certain parts of the pitch.
                              He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

                                A list if you will of referees and assistant referees you think would be able to handle a 6 year olds birthday party with 35 attendees. I'll get the ball rolling as it were,



                                ...............
                                Pre- or post- social distancing?
                                "There are a lot of points that we’ve left behind and this is with a young group. That probably tells you what they’re capable of and that they’re a very good side.

                                Probably next year or the year after next they will take some stopping"

                                Anthony Foley, May 2016. Axel RIP

                                Comment

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