Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Laws Question. Ask here! 2016 Laws changes Post #113

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by red exile View Post
    I appreciate you taking time to discuss this because the move is bothering me a bit when I try to apply the laws to it. But what I have a problem with is Nyanga is quite a distance from the lineout when the ball is thrown, pictured below. He is actually behind the receiver. With the prescribed laws on where you can stand at the lineout this seems to be in contravention.
    [ATTACH=CONFIG]16648[/ATTACH]
    He isnt that far from the line out and if you were to pull this you would be pulling them at most lineouts. By the exact letter of the law it probably should have been called but neither the ref who is in the chariot position or the AR marking the line out didnt call it. And tbh i would agree with them. it would be very harsh especially as its so late in the game and if they didnt do anything about previous lineouts as its the same as most movement within lineouts
    Nyanga isnt really that far from the lineout and you regularly see players moving like that.

    Comment


      Originally posted by red exile View Post
      A quick question regarding Racing's last try. At the lineout Nyanga leaves his position and stands at the reciever position before the ball is thrown effectively reducing the number of players in the lineout to 6 plus two receivers. Is this legal? I didn't think it was.

      EDIT: to give my opinion to get the ball rolling. As a point of context the ball is just leaving the hookers hand in the picture.

      Either Nyanga is no longer in the lineout resulting in Racing having two receivers, or Nyanga is still in the lineout but has put the receiver offside as he is no longer the required 2 m away from the lineout.
      In a related note, teams including Munster have used the old tactic of the receiver entering the line-out as a jumper and catching the ball. When I queried it with a referee friend of mine, he told me that as long as he was 2m from the line-out then the ball was thrown that all was fine. In my opinion, it would be almost impossible for someone 2m from the line-out to run into the line out and get lifted after the ball has been thrown, even at the tail? It would appear that refs at all levels are not applying the rules in relation to the line out consistently.
      Its deja vu all over again!!!

      Comment


        So are you saying it is outside the letter of the law but within the spirit of the laws and therefore should be allowed?

        Maybe one to check with the referee before the game for their interpretation before I start implementing new lineout moves.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Crescent boy 2 View Post
          In a related note, teams including Munster have used the old tactic of the receiver entering the line-out as a jumper and catching the ball. When I queried it with a referee friend of mine, he told me that as long as he was 2m from the line-out then the ball was thrown that all was fine. In my opinion, it would be almost impossible for someone 2m from the line-out to run into the line out and get lifted after the ball has been thrown, even at the tail? It would appear that refs at all levels are not applying the rules in relation to the line out consistently.
          If you look at where Nyanga is when the ball is thrown in this particular lineout you can see that 2m can be made up pretty quickly, admittedly he doesn't get lifted but if that was going to the tail of the lineout there should be sufficient time for a lift. Assuming it is someone light who can move and be lifted quickly.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Crescent boy 2 View Post
            In a related note, teams including Munster have used the old tactic of the receiver entering the line-out as a jumper and catching the ball. When I queried it with a referee friend of mine, he told me that as long as he was 2m from the line-out then the ball was thrown that all was fine. In my opinion, it would be almost impossible for someone 2m from the line-out to run into the line out and get lifted after the ball has been thrown, even at the tail? It would appear that refs at all levels are not applying the rules in relation to the line out consistently.
            Yeah. Its fine. and i wouldnt see it as impossible and happens regularly at adult level.
            If refs at all levels were not applying the law consistently it would be challenged and worked on at the referee association meetings in Limerick/Cork etc

            Originally posted by red exile View Post
            So are you saying it is outside the letter of the law but within the spirit of the laws and therefore should be allowed?

            Maybe one to check with the referee before the game for their interpretation before I start implementing new lineout moves.
            I knew it was legal but here is the law in full as i took it from the law book "Once the lineout has commenced, any player in the lineout may Leave the lineout so as to be in a position to receive the ball, provided they remain within 10 metres of the mark of touch and they keep moving until the lineout is over."

            Originally posted by red exile View Post
            If you look at where Nyanga is when the ball is thrown in this particular lineout you can see that 2m can be made up pretty quickly, admittedly he doesn't get lifted but if that was going to the tail of the lineout there should be sufficient time for a lift. Assuming it is someone light who can move and be lifted quickly.
            Its not an issue. If was such a mistake by the officials then why has there been no major discussion in the media. He was part of the lineout then moved as the ball was thrown and its play on.

            Comment


              Originally posted by ormond lad View Post

              I knew it was legal but here is the law in full as i took it from the law book "Once the lineout has commenced, any player in the lineout may Leave the lineout so as to be in a position to receive the ball, provided they remain within 10 metres of the mark of touch and they keep moving until the lineout is over."

              Its not an issue. If was such a mistake by the officials then why has there been no major discussion in the media. He was part of the lineout then moved as the ball was thrown and its play on.
              I'm not an expert, but I would have thought that 'once the lineout has commenced' refers to once the ball has left the throwers hand or the thrower is in the motion of throwing. So that covers the time once the lineout is in action and all players not involved must be 10 m away. This makes perfect sense or how else could you set up a maul. And obviously you can change positions in the lineout prior to commencement that is also covered in the laws. The grey area I see is leaving the lineout before it commences and re-joining after it has commenced. I just can't reconcile it in my head under the laws.

              I appreciate you taking the time to respond, but don't feel obligated to keep responding I am aware that I am probably become tiresome at this point. It might just be something that I ponder on for some time.

              Comment


                From the Break down in the Guardian

                "World Rugby has now established a precedent for future groundings. Just as scrum feeds no longer have to go straight down the middle and forward passes are ruled to be within the laws if the movement of the distributor’s hands points backwards, so the grounding of a ball over the goal-line now involves a hand or hands being brought downwards on the ball and making contact, however slight".
                Last edited by Piquet; 16th-February-2018, 16:46.

                Comment


                  FromPundit Arena

                  World Rugby have approved a request for a new trial which will see a major change to the number of points scored for a try in certain situations.
                  The request was made by Rugby Australia and the new rules will apply to matches involving the Western Force this season. Of course, the Force are no longer in Super Rugby but they are playing a number of fixtures against representative sides from Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and Hong Kong between May and August.

                  The new rule is that a team which scores a try from their own 22 will be automatically awarded seven points and a successful conversion could make it nine points. The try from a side’s own 22 must be an unopposed move i.e. there can’t be any penalties, dispossession, scrums, lineouts etc.

                  Here is the explanation from World Rugby.

                  When a try is scored from play initiated from within the try scoring team’s own 22m and there is no break in continuity of possession by the scoring team, the try is awarded seven points (not five points). A conversion attempt would follow (making nine points total).
                  If possession changes or a penalty, lineout or scrum is awarded, then this breaks the sequence of possession for the try scoring team and a normal five-point try would be earned.
                  The trial will not be considered as part of the current package of global law trials that will be considered by Council for adoption into law at its annual meeting in May.

                  Essentially, it is a special one-off trial but there will be a review following the series to determine whether it was successful or not.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
                    FromPundit Arena

                    World Rugby have approved a request for a new trial which will see a major change to the number of points scored for a try in certain situations.
                    The request was made by Rugby Australia and the new rules will apply to matches involving the Western Force this season. Of course, the Force are no longer in Super Rugby but they are playing a number of fixtures against representative sides from Fiji, Tonga, Samoa and Hong Kong between May and August.

                    The new rule is that a team which scores a try from their own 22 will be automatically awarded seven points and a successful conversion could make it nine points. The try from a side’s own 22 must be an unopposed move i.e. there can’t be any penalties, dispossession, scrums, lineouts etc.

                    Here is the explanation from World Rugby.

                    When a try is scored from play initiated from within the try scoring team’s own 22m and there is no break in continuity of possession by the scoring team, the try is awarded seven points (not five points). A conversion attempt would follow (making nine points total).
                    If possession changes or a penalty, lineout or scrum is awarded, then this breaks the sequence of possession for the try scoring team and a normal five-point try would be earned.
                    The trial will not be considered as part of the current package of global law trials that will be considered by Council for adoption into law at its annual meeting in May.

                    Essentially, it is a special one-off trial but there will be a review following the series to determine whether it was successful or not.
                    read this elsewhere and apparently posts light up when a try from own 22 is ‘on’. This will bring the fun, but devil takes the hindmost chaos, of the last few minutes/seven.

                    There are things wrong with our wonderful game, but most fans appreciate the sustained possession that is required to keep the ball as it moves three quarters of the pitch- not sure we need flashing lights. Why not sort out the stuff which is blatantly and continually disrupting play/allowing unfair advantage, rolling subbing of tired props, and the madness we now have with the forward pass rule, which now requires freeze frame zoom in on the passer,S fingers and a physical degree (eg ball must travel backwards from the passer, ie never be ahead of the player who passed).

                    Comment


                      It's telling that most of the innovations in rugby scoring/rules are coming from Australia, where the game is in serious trouble. The rest of the world, the game is progressing nicely.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                        It's telling that most of the innovations in rugby scoring/rules are coming from Australia, where the game is in serious trouble. The rest of the world, the game is progressing nicely.
                        These are coming from a breakaway comp organised by a billionaire rather than the national union. Nonsense rule changes if you ask me.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by garryowen2323 View Post
                          These are coming from a breakaway comp organised by a billionaire rather than the national union. Nonsense rule changes if you ask me.
                          Australia seems to think of itself as a self-contained sporting world at times. What's ironic is all the ball sports seem to be losing ground to the one sport that has consistent and rarely changing rules the world over.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post
                            Australia seems to think of itself as a self-contained sporting world at times. What's ironic is all the ball sports seem to be losing ground to the one sport that has consistent and rarely changing rules the world over.
                            The only ball sport doing well over here is their own. AFL is an absolute juggernaut. All others struggling

                            Comment


                              Flashing lights, seven-point tries and rolling subs - it's World Series Rugby

                              by Paul Rees

                              Australia's new tournament, which starts on Friday, boasts radical law changes but it risks increasing the risk of injury and eliminating the quirks that make rugby union what it is
                              Paul Rees

                              A new tournament starts in Australia on Friday. Called World Series Rugby, it will involve matches played by Western Force in Perth, which was dropped as one of the country's super rugby sides at the end of last season, against the three Pacific islands, Hong Kong, the Rebels and the Crusaders.

                              It was devised by Andrew Forrest, the Force's billionaire backer, who anticipates that next year the series will largely include sides from Asia. World Rugby has given its approval for a series of law changes to be adopted with the aim of speeding up the game.

                              The changes include rolling substitutions, up to 12 for each side; one minute for a scrum to be completed otherwise the team considered responsible for holding up play will be penalised; lineouts taken when the throwing team is ready, regardless of whether a line has been formed; and a power try worth seven points, with another potential two from the conversion, will be awarded if the continuous move starts in the scoring team's 22. A green light on the goal posts will flash if a power try is on.

                              The aim is to stimulate the game in Australia where grounds for Super Rugby matches are often only one-quarter full and the club scene is flat. Rugby union facing an extinction crisis in Sydney ran a headline this week and if Perth is hardly a union city, it is far from alone.

                              The belief is that non-rugby followers could be enticed if games contain more action and fewer of the game's arcane rituals, like scrummaging and competing for the ball in a lineout. The more tries the better, although how many points will a side score if a move starts outside its 22, from a scrum or a line-out say, but the ball is passed backwards into it before the decisive break is made?

                              The vast majority of the law changes in recent years have had two central themes: to increase the time the ball is in play and to promote player welfare, but the first has compromised the second. A Rugby Football Union review a few weeks into this season showed the rate of injuries in the Premiership had increased on the previous year because the increased time the ball was in play meant an increase in the number of tackles being made, the area responsible for the majority of injuries.

                              "The attacking side is getting more of the ball because the contact area is virtually not being challenged but facing a greater number of defenders, and we are therefore seeing more tackles," said the RFU's director of professional rugby, Nigel Melville. "The increase in tackles is significant as it involves 'double tackles' and with greater line speed. And we found last year that it was not the tackled player that predominantly was injured but the tackler."

                              With the aim of the Perth series to keep the ball in play for longer, expect there to be more tackles and more injuries. The game will move further away from being a contest for possession to one where players smash into each other, no longer a refuge for all shapes and sizes.

                              Australia are not known for placing a premium on scrummaging, but the maximum 60-second affair runs the danger of turning it into a rugby league set-piece, put the ball in and away. Similarly with the line-out: throw in when the opposition are not ready and there is no tussle for possession, nor time for players to get a breather.

                              They will have to wait for a pause in play for injury, although no doubt there will be calls for a rolling substitute to be brought on when a player is down so play can continue and not count as one of the 12. Forrest says that next year's series will see 10-point tries and set a time-limit on lineouts as well as scrums.

                              How long before both set-pieces are canned and the game moves almost as far away from its roots as the new 100-ball cricket tournament planned in England and Wales? Rugby by name rather than nature, a dumbing down. It is far easier to look at ways of promoting "entertainment" by squeezing features that make union distinct rather than trying to address the central problem of how to create space on the field so that players are not continually clattering into each other from the first minute to last.

                              Not a word about player safety in Perth, but the way the sport is going with each round of league and cup matches scarred by long-term injuries, it could face a class action down the line from players who reach middle age and find that they are unable to work because various parts of their bodies have broken down. Concussion is not the only issue.

                              World Rugby had little choice to approve the law changes with countries like Australia and Scotland, who from 2019-20 will be launching a Super 6 competition to help bridge the gap between club and professional rugby, looking for a stimulus; but it needs to tread warily and not be blindly led by commercial interests.
                              Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2020.

                              Comment


                                Tell the Western Force to start playing rugby league because that's essentially what they are playing in that tournament.
                                He's a guy who gets up at six o'clock in the morning regardless of what time it is.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X