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  • lawrence
    replied
    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
    Balls.ie has an interesting story on the aftermath of the Nigels' Cup Final of 2018 involving Mr Barnes, Donnacha Ryan and Tadhg Furlong.
    Thanks, you just ruined the Scotland match.

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    Balls.ie has an interesting story on the aftermath of the Nigels' Cup Final of 2018 involving Mr Barnes, Donnacha Ryan and Tadhg Furlong.

    Leave a comment:


  • red exile
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    And ye dont seem to have a feel for the game. You dont always penalise every offence that you see. Otherwise you have a terrible game. Nobody wants games to be decided by the whistle. Infringements should be directly material all the time.
    Its like at breakdown you dont penalise a player immediately just because you see them go off their feet. You often play on and have a word. Watch your actions at breakdown number (4/7/12 whatever).
    There will always be players on fringes of being offside you cant pull all/nearly all infringements of the offside law or there is far more

    I played in a game with an recent ex English championship player as the ref. He played to the letter of the law took no **** and everyone knew exactly where they stood. It was one of the best games I played in with respect to refereeing (thoroughly enjoyed it even though we lost). There was no stealing a yard or two, no slow rolling away, no holding on to the ball or player for a split second longer than you should after the tackle. We do all these things to try and gain an advantage or 'even things up' if we feel the ref isn't punishing them.

    When he did they almost entirely stopped, except for the odd player who didn't have as good an understanding of the laws that they should.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oldschoolsocks
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    And ye dont seem to have a feel for the game. You dont always penalise every offence that you see. Otherwise you have a terrible game. Nobody wants games to be decided by the whistle. Infringements should be directly material all the time.
    Its like at breakdown you dont penalise a player immediately just because you see them go off their feet. You often play on and have a word. Watch your actions at breakdown number (4/7/12 whatever).
    There will always be players on fringes of being offside you cant pull all/nearly all infringements of the offside law or there is far more

    Now you’re being silly. “I don’t have a feel for the game?” I just want the THREE paid officials to apply the offside law. Not long ago refs were very strict in coming through the gate, teams were penalized and learned not to come in the side fir fear of coughing up penalties result quicker ball and better games. Now there’s players everywhere ball is slower and attacking rugby is stifled.

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    They don't because "things are fine as they are"

    But, you see, things could be greatly improved by, as Owen Doyle says, applying the current Laws.

    ​​​Are you telling me you don't agree with him?
    Last edited by Piquet; 28th-May-2019, 06:07.

    Leave a comment:


  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
    You, yet again, seem to misunderstand that players will modify their behaviour if such behaviour is penalised consistently.

    As a result of this modified behaviour, the number of penalties will fall.

    As a result of the fall in the number of penalties, the game will be more free-floating.
    Go try referee a game then and try do as you suggest. Do you ever see refs doing games like you say they should be? They dont for good reason

    Leave a comment:


  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
    You, yet again, seem to misunderstand that players will modify their behaviour if such behaviour is penalised consistently.

    As a result of this modified behaviour, the number of penalties will fall.

    As a result of the fall in the number of penalties, the game will be more free-floating.
    Completely agree. There’s a wider point here- the possibility of being penalised is the basis in which we seek to control all sorts of behaviours (certainty of detection reduces offending, rather than the size of the penalty). I can’t see why off side would be any different to drink driving, speeding etc. You simply make it clear that it will be penalised whenever it happens, show that that’s true- and the behaviour changes rapidly. When it slips back again, remind, penalise if necessary and you’re back in control. It’s getting away with it that encourages us to do it again. Couple of weeks of no tolerance players will toe the line.

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    You, yet again, seem to misunderstand that players will modify their behaviour if such behaviour is penalised consistently.

    As a result of this modified behaviour, the number of penalties will fall.

    As a result of the fall in the number of penalties, the game will be more free-floating.

    Leave a comment:


  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
    I find it hard to believe that reffing the game in accordance with the Laws is seen as "not necessary" "not what should be done".

    ​​​​​​Are you really saying "we don't want to upset/frustrate/annoy the players so we'll go easy on a few of the Laws."

    Say it ain't so, OL, say it ain't so.
    No piquet. every time a player infringes isnt and cant be penalised you have to weigh up more than it. Im not saying reffing the laws as theyre written in the book is not necessary im saying you cant penalise everything and shouldnt as you have to look at what else is going on in each game in terms of where teams are attacking/defending, what is situation of game
    A ref is there to facilitate a contest. To do this you cant simply just penalise the infringing player with a penalty every time or like you suggest,
    Maybe its just we have very different ideas on how the game should be played and i want as free flowing a game as possible and you want slower games with more penalties and more dead time within games.

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    And ye dont seem to have a feel for the game. You dont always penalise every offence that you see. Otherwise you have a terrible game. Nobody wants games to be decided by the whistle. Infringements should be directly material all the time.
    Its like at breakdown you dont penalise a player immediately just because you see them go off their feet. You often play on and have a word. Watch your actions at breakdown number (4/7/12 whatever).
    There will always be players on fringes of being offside you cant pull all/nearly all infringements of the offside law or there is far more

    Yes, OL, "you often play on and have a word" but, surely if "a word" doesn't work, you ping and if that doesn't work you ping again until the message gets through.


    Do you not agree?

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    I find it hard to believe that reffing the game in accordance with the Laws is seen as "not necessary" "not what should be done".

    ​​​​​​Are you really saying "we don't want to upset/frustrate/annoy the players so we'll go easy on a few of the Laws."

    Say it ain't so, OL, say it ain't so.

    Leave a comment:


  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Oldschoolsocks View Post

    I think PK is bang on here. If refs don’t ping offside and in at the side then players are encouraged and coached to infringe knowing they won’t be penalized and the attacking game rots.

    If refs are strict on offside and in at the side then players are encouraged and coached not to infringe. Simples

    as for players being frustrated by strict enforcement of the laws, I don’t agree at all. It’s inconsistent application of the laws or that cause the most frustration.
    And ye dont seem to have a feel for the game. You dont always penalise every offence that you see. Otherwise you have a terrible game. Nobody wants games to be decided by the whistle. Infringements should be directly material all the time.
    Its like at breakdown you dont penalise a player immediately just because you see them go off their feet. You often play on and have a word. Watch your actions at breakdown number (4/7/12 whatever).
    There will always be players on fringes of being offside you cant pull all/nearly all infringements of the offside law or there is far more


    Leave a comment:


  • ormond lad
    replied
    Originally posted by Piquet View Post
    A number of things, OL,
    • Owen Doyle would appear to disagree with you. (You would appear to have missed that. It's in Post 64 above, with a link to the whole article)
    • Alain Roland is not, as far as I know, a member of this Site.
    • Your habit of saying "go tell someone else" when you are unable to refute an argument is getting tiresome.
    And if it was this simple then why dont referees at all levels do this? Why are refs not being taught differently? Perhaps because its either not seen as necessary/not what should be done.


    Leave a comment:


  • Oldschoolsocks
    replied
    Originally posted by ormond lad View Post
    You keep stating this as if it wasnt obvious and that refs are missing something simple. Piquet get on to Alain Rolland as you can tell all refs to do ths....
    You have to have some form of feel for the game. Just penalising everything that infringes the laws isnt the solution and wont stop the laws being broken. It frustrates players if you go harsh on everything and players will always be trying to pull wool over eyes of officials
    I think PK is bang on here. If refs don’t ping offside and in at the side then players are encouraged and coached to infringe knowing they won’t be penalized and the attacking game rots.

    If refs are strict on offside and in at the side then players are encouraged and coached not to infringe. Simples

    as for players being frustrated by strict enforcement of the laws, I don’t agree at all. It’s inconsistent application of the laws or that cause the most frustration.

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    A number of things, OL,
    • Owen Doyle would appear to disagree with you. (You would appear to have missed that. It's in Post 64 above, with a link to the whole article)
    • Alain Roland is not, as far as I know, a member of this Site.
    • Your habit of saying "go tell someone else" when you are unable to refute an argument is getting tiresome.

    Leave a comment:

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