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    Iran conference on holocaust

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    <DIV ="sh">Iran defends Holocaust conference </DIV></DIV></TD></TR>
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    <DIV ="cap"></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE><!- E IIMA -><!- S SF ->Iran's foreign minister has rejected criticism of a two-day conference being held in Iran to examine whether the Holocaust actually happened.


    Manouchehr Mottaki told participants the event did not seek to confirm or deny the Holocaust, but rather to allow people to "express their views freely".


    Israel's prime minister has condemned the gathering as "a sick phenomenon".


    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has questioned the scale of the Holocaust, in which six million Jews died. <!- E SF ->


    According to the foreign ministry in Tehran, 67 researchers from 30 countries are attending the conference in Iran, which is home to 25,000 Jews.


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    Participants include a number of well-known "revisionist" Western academics. American David Duke, a former leader of the Ku Klux Klan, is to present a paper.


    But a number of Jewish rabbis are also there. One, British Rabbi Ahron Cohen, said he had come to the conference to put the "Orthodox Jewish viewpoint" across.


    "We certainly say there was a Holocaust, we lived through the Holocaust. But in no way can it be used as a justification for perpetrating unjust acts against the Palestinians," he said.


    'Express views freely'


    Opening the conference, Mr Mottaki said the aim of the conference was "not to deny or confirm the Holocaust".


    "Its main aim is to create an opportunity for thinkers who cannot express their views freely in Europe about the Holocaust," he said.


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    <DIV ="sih"></DIV></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE><!- E I ->Mr Mottaki dismissed foreign criticism as "predictable", telling delegates there was "no logical reason" to oppose the conference.


    In a recorded address broadcast to the nation, President Ahmadinejad questioned why the West would not allow "any investigation" into the Holocaust.


    Mr Ahmadinejad has repeatedly downplayed the extent of the Holocaust, describing it as a myth used to justify the existence of Israel and oppression of the Palestinians. He has called for Israel to be dismantled.


    But in a number of European countries - including Germany, Austria and France - it is illegal to deny the Holocaust. An Austrian court jailed Briton David Irving for three years on charges of Holocaust denial.


    'Negative impression'


    Israel's Prime Minister Ehud Olmert condemned the conference as "a sick phenomenon that shows the depths of hatred of the fundamentalist Iranian regime".


    Norbert Lammert, president of the German parliament, sent a letter to Mr Ahmadinejad criticising the event.


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    <DIV ="cap"></DIV></DIV></TD></TR></T></T></TABLE><!- E IIMA ->"I condemn any attempt to offer anti-Semitic propaganda a public forum under the pretext of scientific freedom and objectivity," he wrote.


    A number of prominent Holocaust historians are attending a rival gathering taking place in Berlin, backed by the German government, in protest at the Tehran conference.


    The US state d

    #2


    The anti-zionist jews are an interesting bunch. Apparently there's quite a few of them in Israel.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by mullet is gone


      The anti-zionist jews are an interesting bunch. Apparently there's quite a few of them in Israel.





      I read an article about them some time ago which was written by a Zionist in which they were described as 'self-hating Jews'. A very strange description.
      There are only two roads, victory for the working class, freedom, or victory for the fascists which means tyranny. Both combatants know what\'s in store for the loser.

      Buenaventura Durruti

      Comment


        #4





        Bit sketchy but...........Apparently the diaspora was thewill of God, the return of theJews to the holy land is preordained but for that to happen you need the directintervention ofGod. You cant just decide to screw over a couple of hundred thousand arabs becauseprevious landlords were feeling negotiable.


        The sad thing about this holocaust denial thing isthatpeople have equated open questioning to denial. Thats all kins of wrong. If someone has evidence contrary to a wide held belief then lets hear it. Ifits rubbish his claim will be dismissed, ifthere is something ofmerit in it wegain greater understanding. Simple as really. Making it look like there's something to hide only gives unsavoury types claims of conspiracy credibility.


        The Iranians should have held a Nuclear weapon denial convention instead.A lot ofIsraeli diplomatscould have gottena nice day out.

        Comment


          #5


          I was at a speech by Zoltan Zinn Colis a few years ago. He was a survivor of Belsen who was brought to Ireland after the war and grew up here, he has a book out about his life that's very good. The speech interspersed with pictures from the news reels of the dead bodies of jews in mass graves was very moving, the bodies were actually moving from the release on gases from the bodies.


          The weird thing about the Holocaust is that the dovish wing of Israeli politics are mainly 'Ashkenazi', or European jews. The hawks have gained much of their support from Arab jews, about 700,000 were expeled from Arab countries after the war around '48 AFAIR. So, while initially European jews fled to a new homeland after WW2, most would have had family members killed in the Holocaust, it's the Arab and American jews that are the hardliners, not the one's whose families were affected by the Holocaust.

          Comment


            #6


            My daughter went to hear Leon Greenman speak at a school in Widnes last year. He told the kids never to vote BNP (sound advice) and said he had regularly had his windows broken bu Neo-Nazis. Incredible. It's senseless to suggest these things didn't take place. When we were kids, just around the corner from where we lived, an oldJewish man had a cobblers shop and I still remember him having a tattoo on his arm with his number and my mum telling us how it got there. No one then suggested there were no death camps and this is the problem. As time passes by, there will be more denials.
            There are only two roads, victory for the working class, freedom, or victory for the fascists which means tyranny. Both combatants know what\'s in store for the loser.

            Buenaventura Durruti

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Ronnie


              My daughter went to hear Leon Greenman speak at a school in Widnes last year. He told the kids never to vote BNP (sound advice) and said he had regularly had his windows broken bu Neo-Nazis. Incredible. It's senseless to suggest these things didn't take place. When we were kids, just around the corner from where we lived, an oldJewish man had a cobblers shop and I still remember him having a tattoo on his arm with his number and my mum telling us how it got there. No one then suggested there were no death camps and this is the problem. As time passes by, there will be more denials.


              I think its prettysenseless and in the long run counterproductiveto not allow people to question what happened. If you tell people to stop asking questions then someonewith a motive will start providing answers. Im sure there are lots of details about the holocaust (like every other major event in history)that are questionable, historians should be allowed examine it without fear of being labelled anti-semitic. If we dont understand what happened we are in less of a position to stop it happening again. Equally the holocaust should not be used as a justification for actions in thepresent day.

              Comment


                #8
                mullet I've never heard of Holocaust denial in the terms you speak of. The questions you allude to are of the order of were there 6.5 million jews killer or 6.6 killed (made up figures BTW)

                Holocaust deniers believe crazy things like only 50k jews died in work camps etc.

                Kiva - Loans That Change Lives

                Comment


                  #9

                  Originally posted by daveirl
                  mullet I've never heard of Holocaust denial in the terms you speak of. The questions you allude to are of the order of were there 6.5 million jews killer or 6.6 killed (made up figures BTW)

                  Holocaust deniers believe crazy things like only 50k jews died in work camps etc.
                  i think Mullets point is that unless you allow the debate you just end up giving credibility to these views.

                  Comment


                    #10


                    Originally posted by daveirl
                    mullet I've never heard of Holocaust denial in the terms you speak of. The questions you allude to are of the order of were there 6.5 million jews killer or 6.6 killed (made up figures BTW)

                    Holocaust deniers believe crazy things like only 50k jews died in work camps etc.

                    Which questions am I alluding to exactly?


                    If someone wants to say 50k jews died in work camps, let him say it. If he produces, however unlikely this seems, credible evidence to show that this in fact what happened then fair enough. We have learned something.Ifwe canproduce evidence to show him to be talking out of his arse, we have now disproved his theorey.We have now also learned something, people who make theseclaims are talking out of their arse. Either way I think we are better off than we were before he brought up the question.


                    Also youd be surprised at how what constitutes a crazy belief changes as time passes.


                    Comment


                      #11
                      I don't disagree, I'm just pointing out that what holocaust deniers claim isn't even remotely plausible. I don't think they should be banned either for the record. I'm in favour of complete free speech.

                      But I would make the point that I wouldn't even bother engaging with a holocaust denier.

                      Kiva - Loans That Change Lives

                      Comment


                        #12
                        What if Ian Paisley decided to have an Irish Famine Denial
                        conference in Belfast "just to explore if it really happened".

                        OK ! - there's nothing wrong with a healthy debate, you might say.

                        But you'd be a thick gobs**te not to recognise the politics behind
                        it.


                        And if iran, iraq, jordan, syria, saudi arabia et al really cared then -
                        as they control most of the world's oil - they could actually do
                        something about it. they could bring the western economies to their
                        knees. But they don't. And the US has never leaned on israel enough
                        to do an honourable deal: Why not?

                        There's a horrible truth here and it's not a million miles away from
                        the 1933-45 Holocaust. There's a war going on - by proxy - and the
                        Arab states think they can afford to lose - because the only cost is
                        the Palestinians - and the West (USA) thinks it can afford to lose
                        because the price is only the annihilation of Israel.


                        Syriana folks
                        Munster – Champions of Europe 2006, 2008, 2019.

                        Comment


                          #13


                          Originally posted by rathbaner
                          What if Ian Paisley decided to have an Irish Famine Denial
                          conference in Belfast "just to explore if it really happened".

                          OK ! - there's nothing wrong with a healthy debate, you might say.

                          But you'd be a thick gobs**te not to recognise the politics behind
                          it.


                          And if iran, iraq, jordan, syria, saudi arabia et al really cared then -
                          as they control most of the world's oil - they could actually do
                          something about it. they could bring the western economies to their
                          knees. But they don't. And the US has never leaned on israel enough
                          to do an honourable deal: Why not?

                          There's a horrible truth here and it's not a million miles away from
                          the 1933-45 Holocaust. There's a war going on - by proxy - and the
                          Arab states think they can afford to lose - because the only cost is
                          the Palestinians - and the West (USA) thinks it can afford to lose
                          because the price is only the annihilation of Israel.


                          Syriana folks

                          Its a two way street you see. If you stop letting people pay you lots of moneyfor oilthen you dont have incoming money any more.........


                          The US never lean onIsrael because you wont get elected in America unless you support Israel. The Israeli lobby is extremely powerful, jewish folks contribute quite a lot to campaign funds and the fundamentalist christians whoare quite important voting wise believeIsrael needs to be there for the Messiah to return.


                          Not sure where this war by proxy bit comes in but Israel have (thanks to american support) one of thebest equipped armies in the world and are the only oneswith nuclear weapons of the countries you mentioned.The annihilation of Israel isnt happening anytime soon. Palestinians are a messbut sure what's new, if that was sorted out terroristrecruiting drives would be a lot duller.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Did anyone see Olmerts slip up in a TV interview the other day when he was listing countries with nuclear weapons and he went " the United States, France, Israel, Britain........." and then the next day an Israeli govt. spokesperson said he had made a "mistake" when he included Israel!
                            Could happen to anyone I suppose.............................@@@@SPAN style="font-style: italic;">with nuclear weapons@@@@/SPAN>.[img]smileys/biggrin.gif[/img]
                            Grandpa Simpson: The last time the meteors came, we thought the sky was on fire. Naturally, we blamed the Irish. We hanged more \'n a few.

                            Comment


                              #15


                              Where is the "holocaust denial"? Nobody has denied that the holocaust didn't happen but whenever anybody tries to study the numbers they are labelled holocaust deniers.


                              Some say 15m people died in the holocaust. [img]smileys/c&#111;nfused.gif[/img]


                              David Duke talks about the Jewsand their media domination herehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnWbaYWh5SA&amp;NR. It's about 9 min long and is very interesting.


                              Comment

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