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    #31
    So let's get this straight. We should place no value whatsoever on credit ratings but have total faith, and base possibly quality of life affecting investment decisions on rumour, and the prattlings of a nameless faceless yahoo on a rugby website?

    Expect a call from Warren Buffet momentarily. He's looking to train in a new impressionable but not too intelligent protogee [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

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      #32


      Originally posted by Dermot G
      So let's get this straight. We should place no value whatsoever on credit ratings but have total faith, and base possibly quality of life affecting investment decisions on rumour, and the prattlings of a nameless faceless yahoo on a rugby website?

      Expect a call from Warren Buffet momentarily. He's looking to train in a new impressionable but not too intelligent protogee [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

      [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]
      The early bird catches the worm but it's the second mouse that gets the cheese.

      Comment


        #33


        Originally posted by Dermot G
        So let's get this straight. We should place no value whatsoever on credit ratings but have total faith, and base possibly quality of life affecting investment decisions on rumour, and the prattlings of a nameless faceless yahoo on a rugby website?

        Expect a call from Warren Buffet momentarily. He's looking to train in a new impressionable but not too intelligent protogee [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

        I have not given any 'prattings' on anybody....it is a fact,that very senior investors in anglo irish(inc senior employees) have dumped shares at massive losses...which speaks volumes for itself.....


        And yes,the credit rating agencies have shown their real value the past 4 months....numerous times they have changed ratings,not down1 notch,as youd suspect if some'1s creidit changed slightly, but 16 notches to junk overnight! SO take all the comfrot you can from them, but as I have witnessed myself, they have their own self interest in a lot of those ratings,and ultimately, when they call to visit, they can be worked on over time to get the desired outcome! Whats you stern defense of them based on?!I do hope,for your own financial security,that their ratings dont overly give you confidence in investing in the equity of any company....


        I'll also add that your in no position to comment on my intelligance,or lack of. Not sure what your jibes at me are intended for. I usually stay off these investment threads for reasons like this thou...you try offer people some educated/professional advice,albeit with no guarantees,and they turn to slagging you off...go figure....you must be working in 1 of the few world prop desks thats in serious black at the moment......
        Seas suas agus troid!

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          #34
          I strongly suspect LLCOOLJ is correct - ratings agencies will be made to look VERY foolish over the next 18 months.

          Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

          Comment


            #35


            Have to say, I enjoy reading these threads, and in particular the postings by LLCOOLJ - balanced (unlike some of his rugby related musings, ) and informative.


            His point re ratings agencies is spot on. Their credibility has been shredded lately; sloppy practices and huge conflicts of interest have severely tarnished their reputations.

            Comment


              #36



              Originally posted by LLCOOLJ14

              Originally posted by Dermot G
              So let's get this straight. We should place no value whatsoever on credit ratings but have total faith, and base possibly quality of life affecting investment decisions on rumour, and the prattlings of a nameless faceless yahoo on a rugby website?

              Expect a call from Warren Buffet momentarily. He's looking to train in a new impressionable but not too intelligent protogee [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

              I have not given any 'prattings' on anybody....it is a fact,that very senior investors in anglo irish(inc senior employees) have dumped shares at massive losses...which speaks volumes for itself.....


              And yes,the credit rating agencies have shown their real value the past 4 months....numerous times they have changed ratings,not down1 notch,as youd suspect if some'1s creidit changed slightly, but 16 notches to junk overnight! SO take all the comfrot you can from them, but as I have witnessed myself, they have their own self interest in a lot of those ratings,and ultimately, when they call to visit, they can be worked on over time to get the desired outcome! Whats you stern defense of them based on?!I do hope,for your own financial security,that their ratings dont overly give you confidence in investing in the equity of any company....


              I'll also add that your in no position to comment on my intelligance,or lack of. Not sure what your jibes at me are intended for. I usually stay off these investment threads for reasons like this thou...you try offer people some educated/professional advice,albeit with no guarantees,and they turn to slagging you off...go figure....you must be working in 1 of the few world prop desks thats in serious black at the moment......
              All your posts are prattlings LL. Most are copy and paste spam jobs.

              Rumour...Can you name the senior investors and employees who have taken a bath on Anglo? I suggest at least some of the individuals are possibly overborrowed and were being crippled by 8 rises in interest rates. They couldn't hang on possibly. Forced sellers equals price reductions. Greed is a terrible thing.

              Credit rating agencies - I agree they are not perfect, but what else would you suggest? What you hear in a coffee shop/pub/jacks? The ratings give a very good indication of @@@@SPAN style="font-weight: bold;">relative@@@@/SPAN> strength btw. If the entire sector goes tits up you'll know which ones will cling on longest most likely.

              Don't talk to me about AIB! When was the last time you paid a motor or household insurance premium? Notice the government insurance levy? We are still bailing out AIB on account of the ICI debacle. They lost about 150% of their annual earnings at the time. Without Government intervention they would have gone bust, and we are still fitting the bill! [img]smileys/mad.gif[/img] More recently they had the Ruznak/Allfirst affair. US$691 of a fraud.

              Insults. You started it buddy. See above.


              Comment


                #37
                Will you lot make up your minds. I am after buying and selling those shares 3 times already this morning on the basis of the advise given out on this thread [img]smileys/mad.gif[/img]
                My computer thinks I'm gay
                What's the difference anyway
                When all the people do all day
                Is stare into a phone

                Comment


                  #38


                  Not sure why I bother,but here go's....


                  Originally posted by Dermot G
                  All your posts are prattlings LL. Most are copy and paste spam jobs.

                  None of my posts are 'prattlings',not that I really know what the word means. I pasted in 2 articles on this thread that are actual investment distributions/morning comments from very reputable investment houses,the authors of which are also quite well educated in the area. Im sure my bank will be happy to hear they paid considerable amounts each year for us to receive"spam jobs"!


                  The rest of my opinionis based on my time working in the markets, and my education (Msc) in the area.


                  Originally posted by Dermot G

                  Rumour...Can you name the senior investors and employees who have taken a bath on Anglo? I suggest at least some of the individuals are possibly overborrowed and were being crippled by 8 rises in interest rates. They couldn't hang on possibly. Greed is a terrible thing.

                  Yes,I can name them,but wont here. Sophisticated investors in the market know who they are. Thbe 8 rises in interest rates are pretty minimal to most levels of investor, these individuals did nto take these positionsthru gearing....


                  Originally posted by Dermot G

                  Credit rating agencies - I agree they are not perfect, but what else would you suggest? What you hear in a coffee shop/pub/jacks? The ratings give a very good indication of @@@@SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">relative@@@@/SPAN> strength btw. If the entire sector goes tits up you'll know which ones will cling on longest most likely.

                  No, you should never invest due ot the sources you mention above. I have already stated my feelings on the credit agencies. Relative strength eh- please advise why an ABS CDO squared comes inasan investment relative to aUS treasury bond? Both are triple AAA. Tell me how,when both wereissued at par, one is now trading at 8.5 cents in the dollarand the others at100+ yet both were given the same rating by these agencies?Relative eh?


                  Originally posted by Dermot G

                  Don't talk to me about AIB! When was the last time you paid a motor or household insurance premium? Notice the government insurance levy? We are still bailing out AIB on account of the ICI debacle. They lost about 150% of their annual earnings at the time. Without Government intervention they would have gone bust, and we are still fitting the bill! More recently they had the Ruznak/Allfirst affair. US$691 of a fraud.

                  Sounds like you were burned by AIB!What happened years ago is of little interest to me....however, it could be relevant to you. I persume your holding Anglo shares based on your stout defense of them,and youll be happy to know, if they wereto go into serious trouble, 1 said Irish government would again have to come to the rescue. They would have to do it for our economies sake for ANY of the Irish banks...


                  Im not invested in AIB in anyway, but of the Irish banks at the moment, they are the best value. I do see the market hasnt hit its floor yet though, so would wait a bit longer to get involved.


                  Originally posted by Dermot G

                  Insults. You started it buddy. See above.

                  Please point thatout because there was none intentional!
                  Seas suas agus troid!

                  Comment


                    #39

                    Originally posted by LLCOOLJ14

                    Originally posted by Dermot G

                    Insults. You started it buddy. See above.

                    Please point thatout because there was none intentional!
                    The one where you said I was a fool. Apology accepted btw [img]smileys/biggrin.gif[/img]

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Am I buying more or selling the shares again?
                      My computer thinks I'm gay
                      What's the difference anyway
                      When all the people do all day
                      Is stare into a phone

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Toss a coin sewa.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          [QUOTE=LLCOOLJ14]





                          I have not given any 'prattings' on anybody....it is a fact,that very senior investors in anglo irish(inc senior employees) have dumped shares at massive losses...which speaks volumes for itself.....





                          I would be VERY surprised if any senior employee in Anglo made massive losses when selling shares. Most of those senior exec types would have got those share as options/bonuses over the last number of years and therefore anything they sold they got for much less or nought depending on the way you look at it. Grant it, if they sold in recent weeks they made less money than if they had sold earlier. But i think to describe it as though they are LOSING their own money is misleading.
                          \"I\'m normally not a praying man, but if you\'re up there, please save me Superman.\" - Homer Simpson

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Dermot G
                            Originally posted by LLCOOLJ14
                            Originally posted by Dermot G
                            Glad to read that. I am a believer in Anglo's business model.
                            Believe all you want-they are the riskiest of the Irish banks...AIB surely looking like they are moving into 'BUY' levels.....
                            I see oh great oracle [img]smileys/lol.gif[/img]

                            p.s.


                            <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 summary="This table displays details of Anglo Irish Bank's Credit Rating" ="investors"><T>
                            <T>
                            <TR>
                            <TH></TH>
                            <TH id=er1>FITCH</TH>
                            <TH id=er2>MOODY's</TH>
                            <TH id=er3>DBRS</TH>
                            <TH id=er3>STANDARD
                            &amp; POOR'S</TH></TR>
                            <TR>
                            <TD>Senior Debt</TD>
                            <TD></TD>
                            <TD></TD>
                            <TD></TD>
                            <TD></TD></TR>
                            <TR>
                            <TD>Short Term Senior</TD>
                            <TD ers="er1">F1</TD>
                            <TD ers="er2">P-1 </TD>
                            <TD ers="er3">R-1 (M)</TD>
                            <TD ers="er4">A-1</TD></TR>
                            <TR>
                            <TD>Long Term Senior</TD>
                            <TD ers="er1">A+</TD>
                            <TD ers="er2">A1</TD>
                            <TD ers="er3">A (High)</TD>
                            <TD ers="er4">A</TD></TR>
                            <TR>
                            <TD>Long Term Rating Outlook</TD>
                            <TD ers="er1">Stable</TD>
                            <TD ers="er2">Stable</TD>
                            <TD ers="er3">Stable</TD>
                            <TD ers="er4">Stable</TD></TR>
                            <TR>
                            <TD>Subordinated Debt</TD>
                            <TD ers="er1">A-</TD>
                            <TD ers="er2">A2</TD>
                            <TD ers="er3">A</TD>
                            <TD ers="er4">A-</TD></TR>
                            <TR>
                            <TD>Perpetual Capital securities</TD>
                            <TD ers="er1">A-</TD>
                            <TD ers="er2">A3</TD>
                            <TD ers="er3">A (Low)</TD>
                            <TD ers="er4">BBB+</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>



                            I am a very simple man could someone tell me what this is all about?????

                            Comment


                              #44
                              They are the credit ratings as given by different credit rating agencys. It means that Anglo is currently seen as a very good credit risk.
                              My computer thinks I'm gay
                              What's the difference anyway
                              When all the people do all day
                              Is stare into a phone

                              Comment


                                #45
                                You look at, toss a coin, invest your money. Sit back and hope the coin fell the right way.
                                Excellence is hard to keep quite - Sherrie Coale

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