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    Originally posted by Jenta View Post

    Seriously? Take a couple of hours for yourself and have a read back over this thread. It's three years of stories about Trump being a bigot, a rapist, a moron and a conman. How can you honestly believe GOP senators will turn on him now? They are not people wrestling with their conscience. In most cases they are not even people burdened with one. With Trump in the White House they have a malleable idiot to help with their true goal of funnelling public wealth to private individuals. Once he's through this impeachment process he will stand a better than decent chance of winning the election in November, which is all they care about.
    I'm referring to just the 1 or 2 more (GOP) that might be needed to force witnesses into the hearing. Give yourself a few hours if you're that slow to reread the post. Close on 50% of GOP supporters want witnesses. If the 4 waverers already there vote for witnesses then even those 1 or 2 are not needed. Bolton etc forced to testify will be dynamite. Don't over estimate the intelligence of the average American. Most haven't a clue what this is really about and just swallow the tabloid brain washing that's been a GOP industry going back years. Many think the stuff you're referring to is just Liberal propaganda. They don't know the facts. There's always a breaking point.

    Comment


      Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
      I know they probably didn't have much choice, but the Dems have scored a spectacular own goal on this, I fear. There is zero chance of him being impeached, and the news that the Dems wouldn't trade witnesses wasn't great optics. If you are going to throw dirt, make sure one of your key witnesses is squeaky clean, and unfortunately Biden Jr isn't.

      I reckon this will give Trump a 5 - 10% bounce for the Presidential election, which will probably be enough to get him re-elected.
      What are you going on about? Biden Jr is not a witness. A cursory glance at the case annihilates any pretense that Trump was concerned about fighting corruption in Ukraine. Why did he invest so much energy in hiding his scheme if he was trying to be good?
      The fact that the offer was made suggests weakness in McConnell who might know the votes are there to allow witnesses so is throwing a desperate gambit to try and get Biden into the circus.
      The Dems (idiots that they are) are right not to bow to that. It's just a diversionary tactic. They think they'll get the votes to force witnesses anyway it looks to me.

      Comment


        Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post

        I'm referring to just the 1 or 2 more (GOP) that might be needed to force witnesses into the hearing. Give yourself a few hours if you're that slow to reread the post. Close on 50% of GOP supporters want witnesses. If the 4 waverers already there vote for witnesses then even those 1 or 2 are not needed. Bolton etc forced to testify will be dynamite. Don't over estimate the intelligence of the average American. Most haven't a clue what this is really about and just swallow the tabloid brain washing that's been a GOP industry going back years. Many think the stuff you're referring to is just Liberal propaganda. They don't know the facts. There's always a breaking point.
        Even if the GOP declares war on itself and witnesses are called, do you think the testimony of John Bolton or Mike Pompeo will be that breaking point? Whatever they are willing to testify to will be so much more damaging than what has already been revealed in this process that Trump's approval ratings plummet and 12 or so GOP senators abandon ship? That simply will not happen.

        I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding two things, firstly the GOP's absolute devotion to preserving power through social conservatism and servicing corporate donors and secondly the strength of the cult of personality built up around Trump. Both of these things would need to collapse for Trump to be removed from office. Neither will.

        I think this process had to be undertaken and I don't think it will strengthen Trump's electoral position all that much to be honest, but he will contest the election in November.

        I'd love to be wrong, I expect not to be.
        "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

        Comment


          No, you again misconscrew my point. He almost certainly won't be removed. But the average Trump supporter has no clue about the real facts. Bolton's likely testimony will paint a picture of Trump that is unpalatable to many and will winkle away more support. You've gone the opposite (and cheap) way of posing as a man of the worrild who knows how bad everything is. The reality is much more nuanced than that. The GOP is in the grip of an entirely corrupt core but not all conservatives are bent.

          Comment


            Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
            ...There is zero chance of him being impeached.
            Hi, Pedantic Pat here. Trump has already been impeached. He is highly unlikely to be the first ever POTUS to be removed from office after having been impeached.

            Comment


              He has been impeached by the House. He has to be convicted by the senate to be removed from office.

              Comment


                Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post
                No, you again misconscrew my point. He almost certainly won't be removed. But the average Trump supporter has no clue about the real facts. Bolton's likely testimony will paint a picture of Trump that is unpalatable to many and will winkle away more support. You've gone the opposite (and cheap) way of posing as a man of the worrild who knows how bad everything is. The reality is much more nuanced than that. The GOP is in the grip of an entirely corrupt core but not all conservatives are bent.
                Trump's approval rating has remained steady through 2 years of world-altering incompetence but the half-assed testimony of Mike Bolton will suddenly make him unpalatable to many? They were fine with everything up to this but Mike Bolton telling them something they already know will change their minds? Ya, even if there was a chance of him taking the stand, I'm not buying it.

                Not all conservatives are bent, but they are conservatives. Their options in November will be an adulterous half-wit doing everything they want, or a democrat. They will not vote democrat. Best you can hope for is them staying home. This process will not alter the numbers to any significant degree. If you were voting Trump before this, you will do so after this.

                "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

                Comment


                  I hate to say it, but I think the army of Republican white men in both houses know their time in the majority is running short in terms of race. The brown and black population is outstripping them in growth, and due to this demographic situation their plan is to seize as much power now as they can

                  Stacking the courts with other Chad's and Brad's
                  Making moving to Merica impossible
                  Building walls
                  Putting Mexican toddlers and children in kennels


                  Mitch McConnell's looks like a Nazi Commandant out of a film. A dangerous old ******** .


                  All of this is last chance saloon for them, so there is a big push to cement power for the inevitable backlash.
                  I am the million man.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                    He has been impeached by the House. He has to be convicted by the senate to be removed from office.
                    Exactly. Two previous presidents, Andrew Johnson and Bill Clinton were the only other two to be impeched. Both were aquited by the Senate. (Tricky Dickie resigned before his likely imminent impeachment.)

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                      I hate to say it, but I think the army of Republican white men in both houses know their time in the majority is running short in terms of race. The brown and black population is outstripping them in growth, and due to this demographic situation their plan is to seize as much power now as they can

                      Stacking the courts with other Chad's and Brad's
                      Making moving to Merica impossible
                      Building walls
                      Putting Mexican toddlers and children in kennels


                      Mitch McConnell's looks like a Nazi Commandant out of a film. A dangerous old ******** .


                      All of this is last chance saloon for them, so there is a big push to cement power for the inevitable backlash.
                      That really is what it looks like. Voter ID laws, voter suppression, gerrymandering, focus on the the courts and packing benches with conservatives, block any discussion on electoral reform (the way the electoral college works means we could have R presidents who lose the popular votes as a feature rather than a oddity well into the future).

                      Comment


                        What does the malignant narcissistic megalomaniac orange sh¡t-gibbon say?
                        "SAD"
                        an "indictment" in itself:

                        Instead of airing the impeachment trial, Fox News fed viewers pro-Trump opinion in prime time

                        ttps://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/23/media/fox-news-impeachment-coverage/index.html

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Cowboy View Post
                          I hate to say it, but I think the army of Republican white men in both houses know their time in the majority is running short in terms of race. The brown and black population is outstripping them in growth, and due to this demographic situation their plan is to seize as much power now as they can

                          Stacking the courts with other Chad's and Brad's
                          Making moving to Merica impossible
                          Building walls
                          Putting Mexican toddlers and children in kennels


                          Mitch McConnell's looks like a Nazi Commandant out of a film. A dangerous old ******** .


                          All of this is last chance saloon for them, so there is a big push to cement power for the inevitable backlash.
                          Don’t believe that. The demographics have for decades been against parties run by conservative old white men - Republicans, Conservatives, Fianna Fáil.

                          But it ignores the rather obvious trend that as people get older they get more conservative, and hence ...




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                          "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
                          Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by tippete7trees View Post

                            What are you going on about? Biden Jr is not a witness. A cursory glance at the case annihilates any pretense that Trump was concerned about fighting corruption in Ukraine. Why did he invest so much energy in hiding his scheme if he was trying to be good?
                            The fact that the offer was made suggests weakness in McConnell who might know the votes are there to allow witnesses so is throwing a desperate gambit to try and get Biden into the circus.
                            The Dems (idiots that they are) are right not to bow to that. It's just a diversionary tactic. They think they'll get the votes to force witnesses anyway it looks to me.
                            The GOP offered Bolton as a quid pro quo for Biden Jr. The Dems refused.
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                            Comment


                              Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post

                              Don’t believe that. The demographics have for decades been against parties run by conservative old white men - Republicans, Conservatives, Fianna Fáil.

                              But it ignores the rather obvious trend that as people get older they get more conservative, and hence ...




                              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                              Thats the irony of the Rs positioning. Maybe people become more conservative, but for sure certain "minorities" L- Latinos and African Americans for sure - can be quite conservative. Socially conservative, family values etc. But the Rs are known as the racist party who want to keep America white. Its not conservatism. And Trumps agenda is pretty radical

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Yatenga View Post

                                Thats the irony of the Rs positioning. Maybe people become more conservative, but for sure certain "minorities" L- Latinos and African Americans for sure - can be quite conservative. Socially conservative, family values etc. But the Rs are known as the racist party who want to keep America white. Its not conservatism. And Trumps agenda is pretty radical
                                I'd be interested in your view of which Dem candidate has the best shot at beating Trump?

                                For me, Biden would be a bad choice due to baggage, Sanders support seems steady but unspectacular. Warren seems like the best shot, but would places like Florida, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin vote for her?
                                Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                                Comment

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