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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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  • jagawayagain
    replied
    Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
    Vermin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...effrey-epstein

    The sex offender Jeffrey Epstein allegedly tried to gather incriminating material against Prince Andrew by forcing an underage girl to have sex with him, according to newly released court documents.

    The papers released by a court in New York say the alleged encounter took place on the late US financier’s private island in the US Virgin Islands. A document claims Epstein instructed the girl, referred to as Jane Doe #3, but known to be Virginia Roberts Giuffre, to “give the prince whatever he demanded and report back to him on the details of the sexual abuse”.
    brexit?

    Leave a comment:


  • Major TNT
    replied
    Vermin.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...effrey-epstein

    The sex offender Jeffrey Epstein allegedly tried to gather incriminating material against Prince Andrew by forcing an underage girl to have sex with him, according to newly released court documents.

    The papers released by a court in New York say the alleged encounter took place on the late US financier’s private island in the US Virgin Islands. A document claims Epstein instructed the girl, referred to as Jane Doe #3, but known to be Virginia Roberts Giuffre, to “give the prince whatever he demanded and report back to him on the details of the sexual abuse”.

    Leave a comment:


  • fitzy73
    replied
    Originally posted by Jenta View Post
    I see an even bigger problem in the medium term for Labour to be honest. Whatever the faults of the Corbyn era (and admittedly, I see fewer than most), it's obvious that Corbyn himself, and his policies, had a major impact on young politically motivated people. I don't see the wooly centrism of Starmer convincing many of them. It might not be such a big issue were he to find a way to bring Northern voters that shifted Tory back into the fold but I think it will take a couple of election cycles before many of that voting bloc figure out how comprehensively they've been lied to.
    I know you and BB think differently, but from my perspective it's easier to shift people from the right to the middle, rather than trying to bring them full on over to fully left wing ideology.

    I don't see those Corbynites making much political hay in the coming years. They might splinter off from main Labour, but they'll end up being more Socialist Worker types. They might have their hearts in the right place, but Britain, and England in particular, is a very conservative country, and they've next to no chance of making any real inroads.

    With an 80 seat Con majority, the only thing the bulk Labour party can do right now is to keep asking the difficult questions. They need 10% of that core Brexit vote to realise they have been duped. That will take time, and I don't expect much of a shift before January / Feb. Even then you've three more years of the Tories grifting Brexit for all it's worth.

    Britain is at a very dangerous crossroads. The next few months and years could see things turn pretty ugly, and quickly. A second winter wave of Covid, coupled with a WTO Brexit, and Christ knows what will happen.

    I've taken a leaf out of Harry's book and am stockpiling beans and shotguns.

    Leave a comment:


  • Oldschoolsocks
    replied
    Originally posted by Jenta View Post
    I see an even bigger problem in the medium term for Labour to be honest. Whatever the faults of the Corbyn era (and admittedly, I see fewer than most), it's obvious that Corbyn himself, and his policies, had a major impact on young politically motivated people. I don't see the wooly centrism of Starmer convincing many of them. It might not be such a big issue were he to find a way to bring Northern voters that shifted Tory back into the fold but I think it will take a couple of election cycles before many of that voting bloc figure out how comprehensively they've been lied to.
    is it not more the case that a lot of the Northern labour support stayed home?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jenta
    replied
    I see an even bigger problem in the medium term for Labour to be honest. Whatever the faults of the Corbyn era (and admittedly, I see fewer than most), it's obvious that Corbyn himself, and his policies, had a major impact on young politically motivated people. I don't see the wooly centrism of Starmer convincing many of them. It might not be such a big issue were he to find a way to bring Northern voters that shifted Tory back into the fold but I think it will take a couple of election cycles before many of that voting bloc figure out how comprehensively they've been lied to.

    Leave a comment:


  • fitzy73
    replied
    Originally posted by Jenta View Post
    On a related matter, I'm not sure the UK Labour Party has ever looked more lost. The party centrists and the right wing media carried out such an effective hit job on Corbyn and the left that I can't see how the party continues in its current form at all. The decision to settle the libel case was political and Starmer looks like a coward because of it. A split seems almost inevitable at this point.
    It wouldn't be the UK Labour party unless there was some some of schism or other.

    I think Starmer has done well since coming on board - he's evicerating Johnson at PMQs, and his personal numbers are higher than any Labour leader since Blair. With the party, he's between a rock and a hard place, and for all sorts of reasons he needs to draw a line under the Corbyn years - that was yesterday's battle.

    ​​
    The difficulty they face is 40% of the country support Brexit, and therefore the Conservatives. They aren't going to poll much higher until there is a fall off in support for Brexit, which could come sooner rather than later.

    It'll be interesting to see where things stand in a years time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by Jenta View Post
    On a related matter, I'm not sure the UK Labour Party has ever looked more lost. The party centrists and the right wing media carried out such an effective hit job on Corbyn and the left that I can't see how the party continues in its current form at all. The decision to settle the libel case was political and Starmer looks like a coward because of it. A split seems almost inevitable at this point.

    McCluskey was certainly not happy. The strong implication in the leaked report (which Starmer has largely ignored) was that the people who had "blown the whistle" on Labour antisemitism had actually sat on and obstructed disciplinaries around antisemitism to create a problem for Corbyn.


    I don't know if Starmer is making a point to the Left or just trying to put a lid on the issue or what, but the people they paid money to yesterday used the disciplinary process to damage Corbyn, and were involved in numerous other schemes (including channeling campaign funding away from marginals).

    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/06/k...-sacked-labour

    ​​​​​​
    https://novaramedia.com/2020/05/19/d...res-on-corbyn/


    I have plenty of issues with Corbynites, but these people are a shower of bastards.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jenta
    replied
    On a related matter, I'm not sure the UK Labour Party has ever looked more lost. The party centrists and the right wing media carried out such an effective hit job on Corbyn and the left that I can't see how the party continues in its current form at all. The decision to settle the libel case was political and Starmer looks like a coward because of it. A split seems almost inevitable at this point.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stanley
    replied
    Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
    A chap on twitter documents tory corruption and incompetence on a weekley basis. He's going to be busy summarising what the vermin are up to;

    1. Let’s start with the milder corruption: it was revealed Matt Hancock tried to block 400 homes and a primary school near Newmarket racecourse, after receiving at least £65,000 in donations from horseracing bigwigs who opposed the scheme
    2. And then Robert Jenrick, the Housing Minister, overruled his dept and planning officers to rush through planning permission that saved Richard Desmond a £45m fee. Desmond is a billionaire pornographer, former-Express owner, and (subsequent to this) a Tory donor
    3. The Tory Manifesto says: “we will offer more homes to local families, enabling councils to use developers’ contributions via the planning process”

    4. The lost £45m was the “developers’ contribution”. One of Britain’s most deprived areas lost it. A billionaire kept it.
    5. And then, I'm sure coincidentally, Desmond donated £12,000 to the Tory Party the next week. A bargain – only 0.02% of the £45m he saved

    6. So this week Jenrick denied he had done anything wrong

    7. Unfortunately, he had already admitted his actions were “unlawful” on 29 May
    8. And then the business minister said voters could “raise their concerns at Tory fundraisers”

    9. So now have to donate to the Tory Party before we can complain about the Tory Party doing illegal things for their donors
    10. In Coronavirus news: Boris Johnson announced more relaxations of the lockdown, saying he would “trust the British public to use their common sense”

    11. 48 hours later a major incident was declared on the South Coast, as 500,000 people common-sensibly crowded the beaches

    and it continues on, and on..

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...398925824.html

    Very naive of anyone to think Tories would settle for a 12k donation, BoJo has been found to have dinner meetings with Desmond over the last 3 months, more than likely he set Jenrick up and there will be a few mill involved, a lot of which will end up in private pockets offshore, 45m at the stroke of a pen is some stroke.

    Leave a comment:


  • AdolphusGrigson
    replied
    Originally posted by Jenta View Post
    Brexit negotiations are going absolutely nowhere, I'm not sure whether that's by design, through incompetence or a mixture of both. But major regulatory equivalency and "trade deals" just won't be in place come the end of this year. Also if you throw the Schrems II decision into the mix then anyone doing business with a UK based entity that plans on maintaining that relationship post 31 December should be concerned.
    I dont think Boris politically or UK economically can afford a no deal.

    Boris capitulated in the negoitations last time to get the WA - so probably will again - British media will claim he kicked the lazy Euopeans up the arshe.

    Failing that, If I were Boris/Domo I'd say the Remainers slowed things down so much that Brexit coincided with the pandemic and ask for an extension - again the compliant wing of the media will run with that.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jenta
    replied
    Brexit negotiations are going absolutely nowhere, I'm not sure whether that's by design, through incompetence or a mixture of both. But major regulatory equivalency and "trade deals" just won't be in place come the end of this year. Also if you throw the Schrems II decision into the mix then anyone doing business with a UK based entity that plans on maintaining that relationship post 31 December should be concerned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
    A chap on twitter documents tory corruption and incompetence on a weekley basis. He's going to be busy summarising what the vermin are up to;

    1. Let’s start with the milder corruption: it was revealed Matt Hancock tried to block 400 homes and a primary school near Newmarket racecourse, after receiving at least £65,000 in donations from horseracing bigwigs who opposed the scheme
    2. And then Robert Jenrick, the Housing Minister, overruled his dept and planning officers to rush through planning permission that saved Richard Desmond a £45m fee. Desmond is a billionaire pornographer, former-Express owner, and (subsequent to this) a Tory donor
    3. The Tory Manifesto says: “we will offer more homes to local families, enabling councils to use developers’ contributions via the planning process”

    4. The lost £45m was the “developers’ contribution”. One of Britain’s most deprived areas lost it. A billionaire kept it.
    5. And then, I'm sure coincidentally, Desmond donated £12,000 to the Tory Party the next week. A bargain – only 0.02% of the £45m he saved

    6. So this week Jenrick denied he had done anything wrong

    7. Unfortunately, he had already admitted his actions were “unlawful” on 29 May
    8. And then the business minister said voters could “raise their concerns at Tory fundraisers”

    9. So now have to donate to the Tory Party before we can complain about the Tory Party doing illegal things for their donors
    10. In Coronavirus news: Boris Johnson announced more relaxations of the lockdown, saying he would “trust the British public to use their common sense”

    11. 48 hours later a major incident was declared on the South Coast, as 500,000 people common-sensibly crowded the beaches

    and it continues on, and on..

    https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...398925824.html


    Jenrick revealed today to have pumped millions in pork barrel money into Tory marginals before the last GE. No one even seems to feel this is wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied
    Originally posted by fitzy73 View Post
    Sadly it's not going to happen. The British govt is rogue right now - look at the "negotiations" they have had with the EU. It's a pantomime, where the end result is already clear - either a fig leaf, bare bones deal, or more likely a no deal hard Brexit.

    The irony is that public opinion has largely turned against Brexit - half of Kent being tarmacked is certainly turning the tide in my area.

    Any govt willinging putting up trade barriers right now, with a long, uncertain winter to come, is absolutely stock raving mad.

    Yet here we are.


    I think it's genuinely scary what's happening in the UK at the moment. There's a govt in power that has totally mismanaged the Covid response, that has been clearly disingenuous about Brexit, that is currently doling out millions and millions of pounds in public money to people with personal connections to Govt under "emergency powers".

    In the US, an insane President has unidentified law enforcement putting people in unmarked vans on the street.

    And the key to empowering all of this has been to stoke a culture war over a sustained period that ensures that people's tribal allegiances will see them turn a blind eye to incompetence, authoritarianism, nepotism, corruption and whatever else is thrown up.

    They don't just accept being lied to. They applaud the lies and repeat them to score points against their "opponents".


    Whatever formula was hatched in the Mercer/Bannon/Breitbart/Putin nexus a decade ago, we need an antidote to it and fast.


    I saw the other day that the Finns have spend the last few years investing in and teaching digital literacy, and that tests since have shown them to be the nation least susceptible to mis-information. It's only part of the solution though.


    Leave a comment:


  • fitzy73
    replied
    Sadly it's not going to happen. The British govt is rogue right now - look at the "negotiations" they have had with the EU. It's a pantomime, where the end result is already clear - either a fig leaf, bare bones deal, or more likely a no deal hard Brexit.

    The irony is that public opinion has largely turned against Brexit - half of Kent being tarmacked is certainly turning the tide in my area.

    Any govt willinging putting up trade barriers right now, with a long, uncertain winter to come, is absolutely stock raving mad.

    Yet here we are.

    Leave a comment:


  • Balla Boy
    replied


    The names of the individuals who have taken cash from Russian oligarchs were given to the committee, but not published in the report.

    They need to be named, the nature of their connections investigated, and (if appropriate) imprisoned. Though a few against the wall pour encourager les autres wouldn't be the end of the world.

    These ****ers are lining their pockets by selling the rules based post-war order down the river. They have to be properly exposed - the neo-fascists, the climate change denial lobby, the dark money lobbyists and political "consultants', the troll farms and dis-information peddlers...the whole ****ing lot of them.

    Leave a comment:

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