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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Not sure I'd agree that Britain has never successfully gone it alone, it was the worlds biggest superpower for many years.

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      The problem is that it is not rational thought which will decide this. The leave vote is based on a feeling - indeed a feeling which has been cultivated by a euro sceptic media for many years. A feeling that we won the war and now we are answerable to others. A feeling that migrants are coming in and taking jobs and welfare. It does not make sense on many levels but trying to reverse this will be hard particularly as the next few weeks in the purdah period means that the ridiculous statements can still hold.



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        Originally posted by Viigand View Post
        Flip side is what is the logical extension of socialism, for me capitalism rewards hard work, socialism doesn't. There is a load of nuance that you'd need to get into about regulation, anti-trust etc but that's the heart of it.
        what about the Albanian fella who washes cars, 60 hours a week. Always soaked, Summer and Winter, skin ruined from tge chemicals. What does he have to show for that only just enough to keep the family going in what we would consider well below acceptable standards. He's not driving a Lexus home.

        Put it another way, game of poker, 6 lads. The other 5 have 100 chips. You have 2. Lets see how long YOUR hard work ethic keeps you alive in that game.
        The whole world cries out peace, freedom and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie.

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          Originally posted by sewa View Post
          Because its ok for everyone else to live next to foreigners but we won't, its blatant racism and massively ignorant.
          It's going on all day, every day in all our lives.

          The Wealthy largely do their best to disassociate with the poor. They spend their money carefully on each others businesses. They help each other out.

          They send thier kids to the best schools. Those schools will not be schooling any of the poor. And because of these choices no matter how daft and ignorant they are they will end up in a better job than most of us.

          They pass thier wealth down, often because they have so much they can't even spend it. Ensuring the next generation have the wealth to extort or leaverage more from the common lot.

          They will live far away from any Tower Blocks, to areas with space and be surrounded by 'thier own'.

          These are just a few points, but with all that in mind, considering we tolerate all that in Europe, Ireland, Dublin, why are you surprised these Millionaires have bought their way out of the situation they spent thier lives trying to get away from?

          Unless these forgeiners are working cleaning thier homes or washing thier cars of course.
          The whole world cries out peace, freedom and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie.

          Comment


            Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post
            The problem is that it is not rational thought which will decide this. The leave vote is based on a feeling - indeed a feeling which has been cultivated by a euro sceptic media for many years. A feeling that we won the war and now we are answerable to others. A feeling that migrants are coming in and taking jobs and welfare. It does not make sense on many levels but trying to reverse this will be hard particularly as the next few weeks in the purdah period means that the ridiculous statements can still hold.



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            You are ignoring the feeling that many people have that there is a significant democratic deficit in the operations of the EU. And that Norway only has to follow 26% of EU regulations to gain full access to the EEA. Many of the people I know who are voting to leave are far removed from the simplistic jingoistic image that is being portrayed. Many people, IMHO, are choosing Brexit because they are fed up with being patronised and told they are ignorant for having doubts about the democratic accountability of the EU.


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              It is easy to give single examples like this to try and prove a point, I'm talking at a philosophical level in terms of which system I think is better. You may not like the answer, but to be fair you posed the original question and I answered it.

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                Northern Nationalist view.

                https://bangordub.wordpress.com/2016...nited-ireland/
                ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

                Originally Posted by mr chips
                AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

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                  The Northern issue will become interesting if Scotland decides to re-run their referendum post Brexit.

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                    Originally posted by MunsterTel View Post
                    It's going on all day, every day in all our lives.

                    The Wealthy largely do their best to disassociate with the poor. They spend their money carefully on each others businesses. They help each other out.

                    They send thier kids to the best schools. Those schools will not be schooling any of the poor. And because of these choices no matter how daft and ignorant they are they will end up in a better job than most of us.

                    They pass thier wealth down, often because they have so much they can't even spend it. Ensuring the next generation have the wealth to extort or leaverage more from the common lot.

                    They will live far away from any Tower Blocks, to areas with space and be surrounded by 'thier own'.

                    These are just a few points, but with all that in mind, considering we tolerate all that in Europe, Ireland, Dublin, why are you surprised these Millionaires have bought their way out of the situation they spent thier lives trying to get away from?

                    Unless these forgeiners are working cleaning thier homes or washing thier cars of course.
                    It still doesn't make it right, reminds me of the ghettoes we created in Irish cities post second world war and we all know how that worked out.
                    My computer thinks I'm gay
                    What's the difference anyway
                    When all the people do all day
                    Is stare into a phone

                    Comment


                      Ok then back to the original question you asked me. Amassing wealth while good for you and your family will ultimately be bad for those who don't. When I say those who don't i mean can't. Talking about work ethic is pure b%llix.
                      The whole world cries out peace, freedom and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie.

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                        Originally posted by sewa View Post
                        It still doesn't make it right, reminds me of the ghettoes we created in Irish cities post second world war and we all know how that worked out.
                        It's not right. What i am saying is why the outrage in this instance? It's happening all day every day. It's not even subtle. Even if you forced them to take in those forgein folk it doesn't mean we are not guilty of doing the exact same thing in Ireland. And I don't mean a few Ghettoes 50 years ago. I mean today.
                        The whole world cries out peace, freedom and a few less fat bastards eating all the pie.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                          Flip side is what is the logical extension of socialism, for me capitalism rewards hard work, socialism doesn't. There is a load of nuance that you'd need to get into about regulation, anti-trust etc but that's the heart of it.


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                          Comment


                            Originally posted by sewa View Post
                            It still doesn't make it right, reminds me of the ghettoes we created in Irish cities post second world war and we all know how that worked out.
                            So what should have been done?
                            What they provided was a whole lot better than what was there beforehand anyway when whole families lived in a single room and shared an outdoor toilet at the back.
                            People got their own front door, bathroom, kitchen, living room and bedrooms.
                            All you need to destroy a place is a few of the wrong sort of residents.
                            The wrong sort rely on social housing so if you live in social housing too then there's likely to be one or two
                            nearby (unless the council has a 'policy' of trying to concentrate them in sink estates).
                            Inner city council tower blocks are the epitome of the worst sort of place to live.
                            Converted to owner-occupied and they can become highly valued on account of location.
                            Really it's hard to see what more could have been done bar something draconian to 'take out' the troublemakers.
                            Last edited by Pythagoras; 1st-June-2016, 09:07.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Pythagoras View Post
                              So what should have been done?
                              What they provided was a whole lot better than what was there beforehand anyway when whole families lived in a single room and shared an outdoor toilet at the back.
                              People got their own front door, bathroom, kitchen, living room and bedrooms.
                              All you need to destroy a place is a few of the wrong sort of residents.
                              The wrong sort rely on social housing so if you live in social housing too then there's likely to be one or two
                              nearby (unless the council has a 'policy' of trying to concentrate them in sink estates).
                              Inner city council tower blocks are the epitome of the worst sort of place to live.
                              Converted to owner-occupied and they can become highly valued on account of location.
                              Really it's hard to see what more could have been done bar something draconian to 'take out' the troublemakers.
                              You spread them out instead of lumping them all in together, creating sink estates with them all living side by side was a planning disaster
                              My computer thinks I'm gay
                              What's the difference anyway
                              When all the people do all day
                              Is stare into a phone

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by sewa View Post
                                You spread them out instead of lumping them all in together, creating sink estates with them all living side by side was a planning disaster
                                That would have multiplied the cost enormously and the people wished to continue to live in their existing communities.
                                How would you have addressed those problems?

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