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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Brexit negotiations are going absolutely nowhere, I'm not sure whether that's by design, through incompetence or a mixture of both. But major regulatory equivalency and "trade deals" just won't be in place come the end of this year. Also if you throw the Schrems II decision into the mix then anyone doing business with a UK based entity that plans on maintaining that relationship post 31 December should be concerned.

    "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

    Comment


      Originally posted by Jenta View Post
      Brexit negotiations are going absolutely nowhere, I'm not sure whether that's by design, through incompetence or a mixture of both. But major regulatory equivalency and "trade deals" just won't be in place come the end of this year. Also if you throw the Schrems II decision into the mix then anyone doing business with a UK based entity that plans on maintaining that relationship post 31 December should be concerned.
      I dont think Boris politically or UK economically can afford a no deal.

      Boris capitulated in the negoitations last time to get the WA - so probably will again - British media will claim he kicked the lazy Euopeans up the arshe.

      Failing that, If I were Boris/Domo I'd say the Remainers slowed things down so much that Brexit coincided with the pandemic and ask for an extension - again the compliant wing of the media will run with that.

      ​​​​​​#GiveLeinsterTheHCupNow

      Originally Posted by mr chips
      AG gets the responses he does because he is a journalist..

      Comment


        Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
        A chap on twitter documents tory corruption and incompetence on a weekley basis. He's going to be busy summarising what the vermin are up to;

        1. Let’s start with the milder corruption: it was revealed Matt Hancock tried to block 400 homes and a primary school near Newmarket racecourse, after receiving at least £65,000 in donations from horseracing bigwigs who opposed the scheme
        2. And then Robert Jenrick, the Housing Minister, overruled his dept and planning officers to rush through planning permission that saved Richard Desmond a £45m fee. Desmond is a billionaire pornographer, former-Express owner, and (subsequent to this) a Tory donor
        3. The Tory Manifesto says: “we will offer more homes to local families, enabling councils to use developers’ contributions via the planning process”

        4. The lost £45m was the “developers’ contribution”. One of Britain’s most deprived areas lost it. A billionaire kept it.
        5. And then, I'm sure coincidentally, Desmond donated £12,000 to the Tory Party the next week. A bargain – only 0.02% of the £45m he saved

        6. So this week Jenrick denied he had done anything wrong

        7. Unfortunately, he had already admitted his actions were “unlawful” on 29 May
        8. And then the business minister said voters could “raise their concerns at Tory fundraisers”

        9. So now have to donate to the Tory Party before we can complain about the Tory Party doing illegal things for their donors
        10. In Coronavirus news: Boris Johnson announced more relaxations of the lockdown, saying he would “trust the British public to use their common sense”

        11. 48 hours later a major incident was declared on the South Coast, as 500,000 people common-sensibly crowded the beaches

        and it continues on, and on..

        https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...398925824.html

        Very naive of anyone to think Tories would settle for a 12k donation, BoJo has been found to have dinner meetings with Desmond over the last 3 months, more than likely he set Jenrick up and there will be a few mill involved, a lot of which will end up in private pockets offshore, 45m at the stroke of a pen is some stroke.

        Comment


          On a related matter, I'm not sure the UK Labour Party has ever looked more lost. The party centrists and the right wing media carried out such an effective hit job on Corbyn and the left that I can't see how the party continues in its current form at all. The decision to settle the libel case was political and Starmer looks like a coward because of it. A split seems almost inevitable at this point.
          "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

          Comment


            Originally posted by Jenta View Post
            On a related matter, I'm not sure the UK Labour Party has ever looked more lost. The party centrists and the right wing media carried out such an effective hit job on Corbyn and the left that I can't see how the party continues in its current form at all. The decision to settle the libel case was political and Starmer looks like a coward because of it. A split seems almost inevitable at this point.

            McCluskey was certainly not happy. The strong implication in the leaked report (which Starmer has largely ignored) was that the people who had "blown the whistle" on Labour antisemitism had actually sat on and obstructed disciplinaries around antisemitism to create a problem for Corbyn.


            I don't know if Starmer is making a point to the Left or just trying to put a lid on the issue or what, but the people they paid money to yesterday used the disciplinary process to damage Corbyn, and were involved in numerous other schemes (including channeling campaign funding away from marginals).

            https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/06/k...-sacked-labour

            ​​​​​​
            https://novaramedia.com/2020/05/19/d...res-on-corbyn/


            I have plenty of issues with Corbynites, but these people are a shower of bastards.
            "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

            "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


            "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

            Comment


              Originally posted by Jenta View Post
              On a related matter, I'm not sure the UK Labour Party has ever looked more lost. The party centrists and the right wing media carried out such an effective hit job on Corbyn and the left that I can't see how the party continues in its current form at all. The decision to settle the libel case was political and Starmer looks like a coward because of it. A split seems almost inevitable at this point.
              It wouldn't be the UK Labour party unless there was some some of schism or other.

              I think Starmer has done well since coming on board - he's evicerating Johnson at PMQs, and his personal numbers are higher than any Labour leader since Blair. With the party, he's between a rock and a hard place, and for all sorts of reasons he needs to draw a line under the Corbyn years - that was yesterday's battle.

              ​​
              The difficulty they face is 40% of the country support Brexit, and therefore the Conservatives. They aren't going to poll much higher until there is a fall off in support for Brexit, which could come sooner rather than later.

              It'll be interesting to see where things stand in a years time.

              Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

              Comment


                I see an even bigger problem in the medium term for Labour to be honest. Whatever the faults of the Corbyn era (and admittedly, I see fewer than most), it's obvious that Corbyn himself, and his policies, had a major impact on young politically motivated people. I don't see the wooly centrism of Starmer convincing many of them. It might not be such a big issue were he to find a way to bring Northern voters that shifted Tory back into the fold but I think it will take a couple of election cycles before many of that voting bloc figure out how comprehensively they've been lied to.
                "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Jenta View Post
                  I see an even bigger problem in the medium term for Labour to be honest. Whatever the faults of the Corbyn era (and admittedly, I see fewer than most), it's obvious that Corbyn himself, and his policies, had a major impact on young politically motivated people. I don't see the wooly centrism of Starmer convincing many of them. It might not be such a big issue were he to find a way to bring Northern voters that shifted Tory back into the fold but I think it will take a couple of election cycles before many of that voting bloc figure out how comprehensively they've been lied to.
                  is it not more the case that a lot of the Northern labour support stayed home?
                  Only fools and drunks argue over everything. If you don’t have a hangover the next day you’re not the drunk...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Jenta View Post
                    I see an even bigger problem in the medium term for Labour to be honest. Whatever the faults of the Corbyn era (and admittedly, I see fewer than most), it's obvious that Corbyn himself, and his policies, had a major impact on young politically motivated people. I don't see the wooly centrism of Starmer convincing many of them. It might not be such a big issue were he to find a way to bring Northern voters that shifted Tory back into the fold but I think it will take a couple of election cycles before many of that voting bloc figure out how comprehensively they've been lied to.
                    I know you and BB think differently, but from my perspective it's easier to shift people from the right to the middle, rather than trying to bring them full on over to fully left wing ideology.

                    I don't see those Corbynites making much political hay in the coming years. They might splinter off from main Labour, but they'll end up being more Socialist Worker types. They might have their hearts in the right place, but Britain, and England in particular, is a very conservative country, and they've next to no chance of making any real inroads.

                    With an 80 seat Con majority, the only thing the bulk Labour party can do right now is to keep asking the difficult questions. They need 10% of that core Brexit vote to realise they have been duped. That will take time, and I don't expect much of a shift before January / Feb. Even then you've three more years of the Tories grifting Brexit for all it's worth.

                    Britain is at a very dangerous crossroads. The next few months and years could see things turn pretty ugly, and quickly. A second winter wave of Covid, coupled with a WTO Brexit, and Christ knows what will happen.

                    I've taken a leaf out of Harry's book and am stockpiling beans and shotguns.
                    Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

                    Comment


                      Vermin.

                      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...effrey-epstein

                      The sex offender Jeffrey Epstein allegedly tried to gather incriminating material against Prince Andrew by forcing an underage girl to have sex with him, according to newly released court documents.

                      The papers released by a court in New York say the alleged encounter took place on the late US financier’s private island in the US Virgin Islands. A document claims Epstein instructed the girl, referred to as Jane Doe #3, but known to be Virginia Roberts Giuffre, to “give the prince whatever he demanded and report back to him on the details of the sexual abuse”.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Major TNT View Post
                        Vermin.

                        https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...effrey-epstein

                        The sex offender Jeffrey Epstein allegedly tried to gather incriminating material against Prince Andrew by forcing an underage girl to have sex with him, according to newly released court documents.

                        The papers released by a court in New York say the alleged encounter took place on the late US financier’s private island in the US Virgin Islands. A document claims Epstein instructed the girl, referred to as Jane Doe #3, but known to be Virginia Roberts Giuffre, to “give the prince whatever he demanded and report back to him on the details of the sexual abuse”.
                        brexit?

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                          brexit?
                          I suppose the fact that meghan markle gets harsher treatment by the Brit press than mod edit prince andrew tells you something about brexit. So yea

                          Please do not post unproven allegations on this forum. Thanks McC

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Major TNT View Post

                            I suppose the fact that meghan markle gets harsher treatment by the Brit press than mod edit prince andrew tells you something about brexit. So yea

                            Please do not post unproven allegations on this forum. Thanks McC
                            My problem with the Brexit reference was that I couldn’t see what it had to do with the point you are making. I still don’t know. I am even more confused by the edited reference to the Windsors. Even a fairly casual familiarity with the media here would show that there is zero relationship between the support for Brexit (have you listened to the BBC in the last year?) and interest in (still less hostility towards, the most recent Mrs Windsor. If you want to find some crazed extremist who confabulates the two you can, but not only does that prove nothing, but I suspect it would embarrass you to see a similarly silly conflation of such disparate issues in Ireland. Nationalism is complex in Ireland, it is no less so here. I relish being Irish, and I read and listen to a great deal of Irish media, and, frankly, the portrayal and understanding of British Brexit motivations is puerile, the subtleties of attitudes toward the royal family, still less particular members of it, are even more so. It is, I agree, very odd to imagine that a blood line should determine who is head of state, but I for one find the belief that wine regularly changes into the blood of someone who (might have) lived 2000 years ago even more mystifying. Of course reasonable people take these things for the symbols they are, and move on, and long may we tolerate the right to do so.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by jagawayagain View Post

                              My problem with the Brexit reference was that I couldn’t see what it had to do with the point you are making. I still don’t know. I am even more confused by the edited reference to the Windsors. Even a fairly casual familiarity with the media here would show that there is zero relationship between the support for Brexit (have you listened to the BBC in the last year?) and interest in (still less hostility towards, the most recent Mrs Windsor. If you want to find some crazed extremist who confabulates the two you can, but not only does that prove nothing, but I suspect it would embarrass you to see a similarly silly conflation of such disparate issues in Ireland. Nationalism is complex in Ireland, it is no less so here. I relish being Irish, and I read and listen to a great deal of Irish media, and, frankly, the portrayal and understanding of British Brexit motivations is puerile, the subtleties of attitudes toward the royal family, still less particular members of it, are even more so. It is, I agree, very odd to imagine that a blood line should determine who is head of state, but I for one find the belief that wine regularly changes into the blood of someone who (might have) lived 2000 years ago even more mystifying. Of course reasonable people take these things for the symbols they are, and move on, and long may we tolerate the right to do so.
                              Good post. I just think england has a serious racism issue, its propagated by most of their media. The bbc recently used the N word in one of their reports.
                              That racism is plain to see, just look at the attacks on meghan markle - simply because she is not white.

                              The same racism was played upon by those pushing brexit. Remember the news paper article picturing thousands of migrants 'invading' england?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Major TNT View Post

                                Good post. I just think england has a serious racism issue, its propagated by most of their media. The bbc recently used the N word in one of their reports.
                                That racism is plain to see, just look at the attacks on meghan markle - simply because she is not white.

                                The same racism was played upon by those pushing brexit. Remember the news paper article picturing thousands of migrants 'invading' england?


                                More inclined to believe Markle is not liked as she has stolen the heart and mind of a favourite Royal, Prince Harry, is determined into making herself and Harry a modern money making machine in the mould of the Beckhams or more likely the Kardashians, she places a very high value on herself, having already said their wedding was worth a Bn in terms of tourism revenue to the UK and she wants her % of the action, Harry must follow on or face a quickie divorce.

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