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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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  • Daithi
    replied
    Originally posted by whimpersnap View Post

    If there's anything the big Tory majority makes clear is that taking a strong remain stance was never going to win an election. The UK public have repeatedly voted for Brexit - in this case, they want it hard and quickly.
    I disagree. The people voted to ' Get Brexit Done ' I.e . To get the bloody thing over & done with, for once & for all.

    They could have equally voted to 'Bin Brexit ' for once & for all I.e. drop Brexit like a stone, if only Labour had clearly offered that option.

    Now you might say those two propositions are entirely different things, yes they are, but imho not in the UK's electorates eyes. Brexit, for the British people right now, is like a half pulled tooth, that's been festering in their mouth for over 3 days. They're beyond caring about the consequences they just want the bloody thing taken away.

    Imho, if Labour had campaigned strongly on either a 2nd referendum, or even better, just repeal article 50 altogether (remember their referenda are only advisory anyway) they would have done much better & may well have won.

    Instead we have Boris, Brexit & Bull@@@t!!! Buckle up....

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  • tippete7trees
    replied
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...s-govern-votes

    Excellently thoughtful and insightful article.

    Leave a comment:


  • whimpersnap
    replied
    Originally posted by Daithi View Post
    Labour needed to take a strong remain stance, pin their knickers to the mast and point a path out of this conservative created Brexit mess.

    The fact that they failed in this obvious requirement, not only means that they lost an election, but they've effectively let the country down when it most needed them to stand out & be counted. For this piddling ineptitude, the country will pay for the next 20 years imho (I.e. from the adverse effects of Brexit) and so should Labour tbh.
    If there's anything the big Tory majority makes clear is that taking a strong remain stance was never going to win an election. The UK public have repeatedly voted for Brexit - in this case, they want it hard and quickly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    Labour needed to take a strong remain stance, pin their knickers to the mast and point a path out of this conservative created Brexit mess.

    The fact that they failed in this obvious requirement, not only means that they lost an election, but they've effectively let the country down when it most needed them to stand out & be counted. For this piddling ineptitude, the country will pay for the next 20 years imho (I.e. from the adverse effects of Brexit) and so should Labour tbh.

    Leave a comment:


  • Daithi
    replied
    The most mystifying thing about the pathetic Labour election campaign under Corbyn was how they tried to ignore the importance of Brexit to the electorate.

    Ffs, it was clear & obvious this was & is the issue, other issues such as the NHS, etc, etc while all worthwhile were of nowhere near the concern that Brexit was & is.

    Labour effectively downplayed Brexit, because their leader was ambiguous on it. So they were a party completely out of touch with what the electorate wanted. STUPID!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • blackwarrior
    replied
    Originally posted by Upfront_1979 View Post

    When so much of the UK media is concentrated in so few hands (Tory friendly) I think it can certainly be considered concerted. Add in the huge amount of money spent in social (Facebook) and the anti Corbyn message must have seemed to be coming from everywhere. You also had "journalists" like Keunnsburg actively promoting Tory lies. It was a concerted campaign
    To call something concerted implies a level of organised or coordinated activity - right-wing media, Facebook, Laura Kuenssberg all together - which is nonsense. Just because a bunch of people, posters and journalists share some fairly widespread common views doesn’t mean it’s concerted.

    Just my opinion, but terms like that seem to be the default position for people claiming conspiracies that never remotely exist.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Leave a comment:


  • JN.Allezdax.com
    replied
    Thx, Piquet. We do not count as they do, here. We ever count comparatively with the cut.

    Upfront that's the same cancer in all the old democrazies. Press and medias belong most of all to moguls who can more or less, depending on the countries, the information. I do not trust and independant press anymore. I really like the Guardian, Libération in France, but they are biased too. On my side of thoughts, that's right, but they are biased, do we accept it or not.
    I found the coverage by Sky News excellent, excepted the fact they covered what they call "the BREXIT elections", when such an election is, theoretically about all the aspects of the society. Was that a way to control the thing, and then it would have been a bias? Was that the right point of view when we see retrospectively how people were fed up with that shambles and gave the feeling that they voted Tories to definitely cut it, and in this case, the broadcaster was right? All the interpretations are right.
    I always considered that press and medias jobs were to recount facts, and only facts. They have not done so for a long long time, and they present permanently "people who know", "experts", opinion makers, and we have the choice: Either we consider that all this salad is the normal functioning of our democracies as far as all the opinions have the right to express themselves on the same way,(with some regulation, and let's call a spade a spade, with some censorship concerning violence, extremist points of view, calls to hate etc etc...) and no matter of this newspaper or this TV broadcast thinks like me, or we come back to the facts and only to facts and the deontology that seems to disappear has to rule all this. That's why I consider, like Jenta, that we are watching live the end of the democracy like it was, simply because opinions are manipulated by some, because I consider that the education fell down, like it's the in France, in Germany for what I know (but I am quiet sure it's the same problem in all our old occidental countries) avoiding each citizen to think by himself.Most of people do not think by themselves, they are simply followers... "Followers"! Tiens! The word "à la mode" since Facebook sticked their undemocratic totalitaria claws on the planet.

    Leave a comment:


  • Piquet
    replied
    Originally posted by JN.Allezdax.com View Post
    Can somebody explain to me why Sky News announces a majority by 80 when Tories got 365 seats, that is 39 more than the half of the House of Commons?
    They already have a different money, they drive on the left side of the road, they do not have the metric system and they invented the surrealist scoring in tennis, but here, logically, 365 seats seem a majority by 39 to me...
    Thx.
    There are 650 seats in the house.

    The Tories have 365, so everyone else has 285.

    That's a Majority of 365 minus 285, or 80.

    Leave a comment:


  • lawrence
    replied
    Originally posted by Upfront_1979 View Post

    When so much of the UK media is concentrated in so few hands (Tory friendly) I think it can certainly be considered concerted. Add in the huge amount of money spent in social (Facebook) and the anti Corbyn message must have seemed to be coming from everywhere. You also had "journalists" like Keunnsburg actively promoting Tory lies. It was a concerted campaign
    You forgot the Russians

    Leave a comment:


  • Upfront_1979
    replied
    Originally posted by blackwarrior View Post

    Concerted? GWAN ya conspiracy nut job
    When so much of the UK media is concentrated in so few hands (Tory friendly) I think it can certainly be considered concerted. Add in the huge amount of money spent in social (Facebook) and the anti Corbyn message must have seemed to be coming from everywhere. You also had "journalists" like Keunnsburg actively promoting Tory lies. It was a concerted campaign

    Leave a comment:

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