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Brexit referendum and negotiations 2016-19

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    Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

    We are not watching it die. A Labour of Smith, Blair, Brown, David Milliband with a sensible approach to worker values while covering the centre would have walked this election. Corbyn is rightfully perceived as an old Commie who would bankrupt the country. He was ambivalent on Brexit and hard left on everything else.

    the positive of this election is that Boris will fully own Brexit. No one else can take the blame.
    This is so much more than "a centrist could have saved us". This is the result of a decade or more of concentrated misinformation. It's a stitch up. You had every major print media outlet and the state broadcaster spreading lies in favour of the party that will protect the wealthy. This at a time when wealth is concentrating in fewer and fewer hands and climate change needs drastic action.

    Corbyn is a decent and honest man that presented a manifesto that could have delivered economic growth and a drastic improvement in social conditions. The press left most of the country convinced he was a demented, jew hating communist that spent his weekends hanging out with bin laden. That's a press controlled by the vastly wealthy.

    This is a more cowardly act by a voting population than trump.

    "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

    Comment


      Originally posted by Jenta View Post

      This is so much more than "a centrist could have saved us". This is the result of a decade or more of concentrated misinformation. It's a stitch up. You had every major print media outlet and the state broadcaster spreading lies in favour of the party that will protect the wealthy. This at a time when wealth is concentrating in fewer and fewer hands and climate change needs drastic action.

      Corbyn is a decent and honest man that presented a manifesto that could have delivered economic growth and a drastic improvement in social conditions. The press left most of the country convinced he was a demented, jew hating communist that spent his weekends hanging out with bin laden. That's a press controlled by the vastly wealthy.

      This is a more cowardly act by a voting population than trump.
      Let's hope the next leader doesn't suffer the same misinformation campaign.

      If he was that smelly surely there was opportunity to change him out for someone more Teflon?

      Tis all a hill of beans now anyway, sex wonka is out of the fridge
      I am the million man.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Cowboy View Post

        Let's hope the next leader doesn't suffer the same misinformation campaign.

        If he was that smelly surely there was opportunity to change him out for someone more Teflon?

        Tis all a hill of beans now anyway, sex wonka is out of the fridge
        If the next leader threatens established interests then the exact same will happen.

        Democracy is genuinely failing in the face of powerful vested interests. This ends in totalitarianism.
        "It’s not the team you support, it’s the club you should support. The team on the pitch will ebb and flow because that’s the nature of sport. No team has ever been successful decade on decade. The club has the history and that’s the passion you should have."

        Comment


          Originally posted by Jenta View Post

          This is so much more than "a centrist could have saved us". This is the result of a decade or more of concentrated misinformation. It's a stitch up. You had every major print media outlet and the state broadcaster spreading lies in favour of the party that will protect the wealthy. This at a time when wealth is concentrating in fewer and fewer hands and climate change needs drastic action.

          Corbyn is a decent and honest man that presented a manifesto that could have delivered economic growth and a drastic improvement in social conditions. The press left most of the country convinced he was a demented, jew hating communist that spent his weekends hanging out with bin laden. That's a press controlled by the vastly wealthy.

          This is a more cowardly act by a voting population than trump.
          There's a lot of truth in your analysis but a successful politician needs to be able to communicate his ideas convincingly. The left faces an uphill struggle given the media bias but it can be done. Anyway, reality had to prevail in the end and the fascist playbook will end in disaster it's premises are counter to cardinal human truths. That fight has to be won each time.
          Stand up for the Ulcer men

          Comment


            Originally posted by Jenta View Post

            If the next leader threatens established interests then the exact same will happen.

            Democracy is genuinely failing in the face of powerful vested interests. This ends in totalitarianism.
            And an unspecified amount of additional unnamed children conceived this weekend
            I am the million man.

            Comment


              Blythe Valley votes a Tory in. **** me pink.

              I'm off to bed.
              Please support Milford Hospice. Click here to donate.

              Comment


                Didn’t take a genius to work this result out. I’d like to thank paddy power for their generous odds on the over

                Comment


                  Originally posted by The Last Stand View Post

                  We are not watching it die. A Labour of Smith, Blair, Brown, David Milliband with a sensible approach to worker values while covering the centre would have walked this election. Corbyn is rightfully perceived as an old Commie who would bankrupt the country. He was ambivalent on Brexit and hard left on everything else.

                  the positive of this election is that Boris will fully own Brexit. No one else can take the blame.


                  Please stop with this ****e. 45% of the UK electorate, Pro Brexit, was lashed to the Tory mast on that basis alone.

                  Blair's smallest majority saw the Tories poll in the low 30's.


                  The idea that a slightly more centrist Labour leader would have won, that this is a rejection of the Nordic model....it's utterly incoherent.
                  "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                  "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                  "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Viigand View Post
                    Didn’t take a genius to work this result out. I’d like to thank paddy power for their generous odds on the over
                    You still don't understand why though, do you?
                    "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                    "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                    "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Balla Boy View Post

                      You still don't understand why though, do you?
                      I do yes. I’m a centrist voter. You are on the extremes. I am willing to vote either Tory or Labour. This time around I would have voted for Blair/Brown/Milliband. Would have considered Lib Dem until they said they would prop up Corbyn. But Corbyn is way too far left for a centrist so no real option but to hold the nose and vote for that clown Boris. Hobson’s choice unfortunately. But if you want a Labour government you need to listen to moderates and not call them names.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Viigand View Post

                        I do yes. I’m a centrist voter. You are on the extremes. I am willing to vote either Tory or Labour. This time around I would have voted for Blair/Brown/Milliband. Would have considered Lib Dem until they said they would prop up Corbyn. But Corbyn is way too far left for a centrist so no real option but to hold the nose and vote for that clown Boris. Hobson’s choice unfortunately. But if you want a Labour government you need to listen to moderates and not call them names.


                        Again, this is 90's assertion with no basis in fact. It's not analysis - just your decades old prejudice.

                        Corbyn is not "far left". There's nothing in the Labour manifesto that would have been out of place in continental Europe. Your notion that the British public has just gone out and registered its view on rail nationalistion is - and there's no other way of putting it - utter ****ing ****.
                        "We will not walk in fear, one of another. We will not be driven into an age of unreason if we dig deep into our history and remember we are not descended from fearful men" Edward R Murrow

                        "Little by little, we have been brought into the present condition in which we are able neither to tolerate the evils from which we suffer, nor the remedies we need to cure them." - Livy


                        "I think that progress has been made by two flames that have always been burning in the human heart. The flame of anger against injustice and the flame of hope that you can build a better world" - Tony Benn

                        Comment


                          Remainers consider Corbyn a leaver and leavers consider him a remainer.
                          Add in a press campaign that paints him as another Michael Foot and basically Labour had no hope.
                          This is a fairly right wing country anyway.
                          It’s a flippin nightmare.

                          Any jobs going over there?
                          english by birth

                          Comment


                            So when large sections of the media repeatedly said that a second referendum would give a clear remain result they were wrong eh!

                            I’m looking forward now to the final season of brexit.

                            Comment


                              They say (probably Connacht rugby fans) the next best thing after success is disastrous failure.
                              Stand up for the Ulcer men

                              Comment


                                The new reality: the 2020s in the UK will be Conservative. Next chance of a Labour government will be in a 2029 election most likely, long after the UK has left the EU. Brexit as a term will be almost forgotten.

                                Plenty of time then for Labour to sort itself out. But for the next few years, get used to seeing Johnson strut his stuff as UK prime minister.
                                "I don't believe in fairytales," O'Connell once told me, "even though it feels like I've been lucky enough to live through a few. However it ends, I'll feel lucky."
                                Donald McRae, Guardian Rugby, October 2015

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